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      08-16-2017, 07:57 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
There is a war memorial I have visited. Its in another country, but the message is clear. The memorial was built by the "losers" and it one of the most powerful monuments I have ever experienced. See the Hiroshima bomb memorial.
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
I think there is a qualitative distinction. The Hiroshima Peace Memorial honours victims in way that stirs us all emotionally and should compel mankind to never forget the horrors that were suffered. I would put the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum in a similar context. Vimy Ridge has always been exceptionally moving to me (obviously a Canadian perspective).

I also think it is one thing to honour the war's dead and Confederate gravestones or the Confederate soldiers memorialized in Gettysburg are historically relevant and appropriately contextual. There is a difference between a statue honouring two Confederate soldiers from Mississippi in the Gettysburg memorial and statues of Lee/Davis/Jackson/etc in city squares and parks. The former is designed to make us think about our history and the horror that is war and the latter is intended to rewrite that history with revisionist tones that seek to make the dishonourable motives of secession somehow honourable.
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Ok I'm convinced, let's tear em all down.

We should also go to Egypt and destroy all the pyramids. After all, those were built by slaves so no way those should escape our SJW wrath.

We also need to march on Europe and destroy all remnants of the Nazi death camps. Auschwitz, Dachau, we gotta level all that shit.

No need for history lessons as long as one single person is offended. Progress!

The Hiroshima Memorial was built by the "losers" but it wasn't built to honor or glorify the atrocities and wrongdoings of Japan.

But unfortunately, Japan does have a memorial to honor its not-so-bright moments: the Yasukuni Shrine, which also honors war criminals from WWII.
It is very controversial in Asia, especially when Japanese Prime Ministers or members of the Japanese cabinet visit and "pay respects".

Can you imagine if Germany had a shrine/temple commemorating the SS?
Yeah, it's on that level.


Yes there are cemeteries, headstones, and memorials of the American Civil War throughout the US, and the concentration camps in Europe (Auschwitz, Dachau) and Asia (Unit 731) are preserved but they aren't there to glorify the deeds of any one man or ideology; they are there to present a factual history to posterity, something they can see with their own eyes, that therein lie a shameful period of history that hopefully won't be repeated.

Memorials and historical sites such as Auschwitz and Gettysburg exist to teach the next generation about worst of humanity, war.

Memorials such as Yasukuni Shrine, and the hypothetical SS/Nazi memorial serve to glorify and even justify, the worst of humanity.

There's a difference.
This.

100x

I can't stand the over reactions and sweeping generalizations that some shout in response, "well we should just wipe the history books clean and get rid of the concentration camps too"

They aren't monuments for goodness sake. They are memorials.
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      08-16-2017, 08:58 PM   #68
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Better ban anything JFK related. He once said Hitler "was the stuff of legends".


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39371715

A diary kept by President John F Kennedy as a young man travelling in Europe, revealing his fascination with Adolf Hitler, is up for auction.

Kennedy, then 28, predicted "Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived".

"He had in him the stuff of which legends are made," he continued.

Kennedy wrote the entry in the summer of 1945 after touring the German dictator's Bavarian mountain retreat.
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      08-16-2017, 09:06 PM   #69
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Hummmm.... Whoever made that graph of history apparently left out this tidbit of significance in American history:
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      08-16-2017, 09:07 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Better ban anything JFK related. He once said Hitler "was the stuff of legends".


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39371715

A diary kept by President John F Kennedy as a young man travelling in Europe, revealing his fascination with Adolf Hitler, is up for auction.

Kennedy, then 28, predicted "Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived".

"He had in him the stuff of which legends are made," he continued.

Kennedy wrote the entry in the summer of 1945 after touring the German dictator's Bavarian mountain retreat.
Completely unacceptable. Better dig him up and place him in an unmarked grave where nobody can pay respects to this obvious nazi sympathizer.
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      08-16-2017, 10:23 PM   #71
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.
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      08-16-2017, 10:38 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by maloo View Post
Yes, when they were created that was the exact purpose. Thes statues weren't put up yesterday. Reading comprehension.
You're an embarrassment to the Boston Area.
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      08-17-2017, 05:12 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
.
There are 46mil slaves worldwide today according to these guys.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...-russell-crowe
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      08-17-2017, 05:36 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
There are 46mil slaves worldwide today according to these guys.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...-russell-crowe
To anglo's defense, I think it was clear he was speaking in context of US slavery (the institution thereof) where, because the American slaves were freed by the Republican President Abraham Lincoln (he got killed for doing so by a Left-wing Democrat) under the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863, and then followed by the 15th Amendment providing voting rights to freed slaves (granted it didn't change the treatment of the American Black overnight), i.e. since the end of the American Civil war, slavery of (primarily) Black Americans in the US was abolished.
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      08-17-2017, 05:50 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
So the statue of R. E Lee is stopping black people from advancing. Jesus H. Christ now I heard everything.
His statue is in Rio de Janeiro FYI

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      08-17-2017, 05:51 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
To anglo's defense, I think it was clear he was speaking in context of US slavery (the institution thereof) where, because the American slaves were freed by the Republican President Abraham Lincoln (he got killed for doing so by a Left-wing Democrat) under the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863, and then followed by the 15th Amendment providing voting rights to freed slaves (granted it didn't change the treatment of the American Black overnight), i.e. since the end of the American Civil war, slavery of (primarily) Black Americans in the US was abolished.
Yea you're probably right.
I just googled it and was a bit shocked by the number, that's all.
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      08-17-2017, 05:52 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
There are 46mil slaves worldwide today according to these guys.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...-russell-crowe
Slavery....as old as mankind and not only a prerogative for coloured/Afro people...
Au contraire....

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      08-17-2017, 05:58 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
You didn't say Confederate monuments. George Washington was a slave owner - is his monument offensive. Thomas Jefferson was also a slave owner - is his memorial and Mt Rushmore also offensive?

Robert E Lee was a West Point graduate and served in the U.S. Military and was a hero, along with Ulysses S, Grant in the Mexican-American War. He was president of Washington and Lee University after the Civil War until his death in 1870.
This.

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      08-17-2017, 06:05 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Better ban anything JFK related. He once said Hitler "was the stuff of legends".


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39371715

A diary kept by President John F Kennedy as a young man travelling in Europe, revealing his fascination with Adolf Hitler, is up for auction.

Kennedy, then 28, predicted "Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived".

"He had in him the stuff of which legends are made," he continued.

Kennedy wrote the entry in the summer of 1945 after touring the German dictator's Bavarian mountain retreat.
Though Castro wasn't as much a commie(more an opportunist) as you might think(his brother Raoul is and Ernesto Guevara was) he was cornered by USA/JFK and we all know what happened....Fcuking Soviets at your doorstep.

Anyway, JFK isn't the legend/martyr many describe him, I unfortunately must say....

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      08-17-2017, 06:26 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
To anglo's defense, I think it was clear he was speaking in context of US slavery (the institution thereof) where, because the American slaves were freed by the Republican President Abraham Lincoln (he got killed for doing so by a Left-wing Democrat) under the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863, and then followed by the 15th Amendment providing voting rights to freed slaves (granted it didn't change the treatment of the American Black overnight), i.e. since the end of the American Civil war, slavery of (primarily) Black Americans in the US was abolished.
It wasn't clear what he meant, the way this thread has been. Everyone in here is taking things down to the bare knuckle extreme, might as well include modern day slavery if they are going to start saying tear down the great wall or concentration camps.
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      08-17-2017, 08:34 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
To anglo's defense, I think it was clear he was speaking in context of US slavery (the institution thereof) where, because the American slaves were freed by the Republican President Abraham Lincoln (he got killed for doing so by a Left-wing Democrat) under the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863, and then followed by the 15th Amendment providing voting rights to freed slaves (granted it didn't change the treatment of the American Black overnight), i.e. since the end of the American Civil war, slavery of (primarily) Black Americans in the US was abolished.

+1

Lookin at that link most of the slavery is happening in Islamic countries and communist countries the Liberals love to defend so much and here they're crying over monuments.
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      08-17-2017, 09:03 AM   #82
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The Neo-Nazis you love to defend were also crying over monuments.
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      08-17-2017, 09:19 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Axius View Post
The Neo-Nazis you love to defend were also crying over monuments.
Makin shit up again, i didn't defend neo Nazis, my mom is Jewish that makes me a Jew.

I was defending freedom of speech.
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      08-17-2017, 09:23 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
I think there is a qualitative distinction. The Hiroshima Peace Memorial honours victims in way that stirs us all emotionally and should compel mankind to never forget the horrors that were suffered. I would put the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum in a similar context. Vimy Ridge has always been exceptionally moving to me (obviously a Canadian perspective).

I also think it is one thing to honour the war's dead and Confederate gravestones or the Confederate soldiers memorialized in Gettysburg are historically relevant and appropriately contextual. There is a difference between a statue honouring two Confederate soldiers from Mississippi in the Gettysburg memorial and statues of Lee/Davis/Jackson/etc in city squares and parks. The former is designed to make us think about our history and the horror that is war and the latter is intended to rewrite that history with revisionist tones that seek to make the dishonourable motives of secession somehow honourable.
And therein lies the heart of much of the strife between differing views these days.

As I stated, Hiroshima physically moved me. Tears well up even as I write this. The horror of that act in humanity. But I'm also moved by the spirit of the people who have made it so clear that we must never let this level of violence loose in the world again.

No blame, no hatred of the others just because their ancestors committed an atrocity, but rather a cry for humanity, peace and love.

I CHOOSE to see those statues in the South as reminders of the atrocities committed against people who differed no more from me than the fact that their melatonin count is different than mine. They wanted to love, have a family, better their lot in life. Is that any different than whomever you have a disagreement with today, or tomorrow? For the sake of the human race, let's hope not.
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      08-17-2017, 09:30 AM   #85
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That's not defending freedom of speech though, they crossed that line, as well as disobeyed the Patriot Act, which I'm sure you're familiar with. How they "acted on their first amendment right" was a federal crime. That, in turn, instigated Antifa patrons, who also acted out of line. Cause and effect. No cause, no effect. No Neo-Nazi's protesting in homemade riot gear and weapons, no backlash from their opposition.

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Under the Patriot Act, it is a federal crime to commit dangerous and illegal acts on U.S. soil with the intent to intimidate or coerce the government or a civilian population
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      08-17-2017, 09:33 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axius View Post
That's not defending freedom of speech though, they crossed that line, as well as disobeyed the Patriot Act, which I'm sure you're familiar with. How they "acted on their first amendment right" was a federal crime.
Your gun hugging ass is so sexy when you defend the laws.

I would've texted you that but i lost my phone, again.
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How would you know this? Did mommy catch you jerking off to some Big Foot porn ?
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      08-17-2017, 09:36 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
+1

Lookin at that link most of the slavery is happening in Islamic countries and communist countries the Liberals love to defend so much and here they're crying over monuments.
Here I thought all this talk about monuments is going on is because some nazi scum were protesting (or crying) over the removal of one of these monuments, while also taking the chance to walk around with torches screaming a few incredibly racist chants along the way, which ultimately resulted in one of them actually murdering one person and seriously injuring several others with a car. But lets ignore all that and make it look like it's the leftist snowflakes who are being too sensitive over some pointless monument instead...

It's almost impressive how you guys can take any subject and turn in into something negative about Obama/Hillary/Liberals etc...

Btw, the only people I've seen literally crying are the people at the scene of that incident and that nazi who felt so sorry for himself because people weren't ok with him being a f****** racist POS.
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      08-17-2017, 09:44 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Your gun hugging ass is so sexy when you defend the laws.

I would've texted you that but i lost my phone, again.
You're a mess! How do you do that so often? Mind boggling.


I love my guns, would never give them up for anything. However, I also understand that going into public with my AR15 is going to be unnerving to people and will ultimately intimidate them (thus breaking the Patriot Act). It's a threat, and should be treated as such, given the situation was a provoked protest.
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