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      08-15-2018, 02:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
should be forced to resign. Remember the CEO of Uber was forced to resign because of a culture of sexual harassment?

Time for a new leader. This is supposed to be the closest person to god. Does that mean god is saying "shhhh.....best to sweep this under the rug again."
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      08-15-2018, 02:10 PM   #24
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As a non-practicing member of the Roman Catholic church, I continue to be appalled by these things. This is a small part of why I consider myself non-practicing.

Like many wonderful ideas (yes, including Communism) there are these grand ideas that get fucked up by human involvement.

My faith is in Jesus, not the Catholic Church. The Church is an oft-corrupted human invention.

I watched my childrens' interactions with members of the Church very closely. While I was never abused, there was one church "leader" who wasn't a priest, but my Spidey-senses told me to NEVER be alone anywhere with that person.
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      08-15-2018, 02:11 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Lennon997 View Post
The pope did condemn this behavior.... and this has happened all over the world since the beginning of time, another guy posted since the 70's? no....unfortunately way before that. its a shame, despicable.

Until you string a priest up in a public square, cut off his c0ck and shove it down his throat this behavior will continue, children will continue to be exploited and defiled. Its a travesty.
Condemn is one thing. Actions are another. A true leader would institute a zero tolerance policy and provide complete access to all records. They have still tried to address this internally as best as possible and been anything but transparent. Stop trying to defend their priests and start trying to punish them in court.
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      08-15-2018, 02:11 PM   #26
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I think this is a classic example of "The deprived become depraved"

Doesn't excuse any of it.
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      08-15-2018, 02:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
should be forced to resign. Remember the CEO of Uber was forced to resign because of a culture of sexual harassment?

Time for a new leader. This is supposed to be the closest person to god. Does that mean god is saying "shhhh.....best to sweep this under the rug again."
You may have something there.
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      08-15-2018, 02:19 PM   #28
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The laws of the land should trump any laws within a religion. Freedom of religion ONLY if the religion does not cross the bounds set out by the greater good.

This is a problem in Canada. We let all sorts of religions groups practice things that frankly go against the dignity of what makes Canada great. Ill be the first to say that Islam is a major abuser in that regard (i.e. the burka), but so are many other religions. Funny the only thing my country stood up for was polygamy and after 20 years at trail found the guy guilty and he did zero jail time.


I wish my country would take todays news use common sense and demand an inquest into all Catholic churches requiring them to turn over all records pertaining to possible abuse allegations.
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      08-15-2018, 02:21 PM   #29
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I've had to keep my mouth shut about this for a long time, but I had a part in the review of materials related to this matter.

All I will say on the matter is I hope there is a special place in hell for the perpetrators of these heinous acts. Devoid any physical evidence, it's a great hope of mine that there is indeed an afterlife where those who skated by on great atrocities during this life pay dearly for it in the next one. While the SOL have run on nearly all of this, the scars these demons have left will never heal.

Good bless all the victims and their families.
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      08-15-2018, 02:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I've had to keep my mouth shut about this for a long time, but I had a part in the review of materials related to this matter.

All I will say on the matter is I hope there is a special place in hell for the perpetrators of these heinous acts. Devoid any physical evidence, it's a great hope of mine that there is indeed an afterlife where those who skated by on great atrocities during this life pay dearly for it in the next one. While the SOL have run on nearly all of this, the scars these demons have left will never heal.

Good bless all the victims and their families.
Being a believer in God myself, I do believe there is a heaven and a hell. And those who have abused these children will be suffering horribly in hell.

I think what irks me most about these crimes is the "he said / she said" nature of it (unless caught either in the act, or close enough to it that a semen sample can be obtained...ie physical evidence). But if it comes up a year or twenty years later....what evidence is there other than a he said / she said testimony. And in such a case, the victim will most likely lose, since innocent till proven guilty and what proof exists?

I just wish there was something better - something more conclusive. I don't necessarily believe all the claims out there, but nor do I discount all of them either. I just wish there was a way to prove it.
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      08-15-2018, 04:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
You sooo want to make this about Catholicism vs. Islam. And taking a shot at our president saying that if this was Islam, he would do something about it. Admit it, you started this thread to push your pathetic agenda. Yes, this is a horrible story and yes, it's unfathomable that this is still going on. But, you're more concerned about pushing your agenda. As Anglo pointed out, go look at what some Muslim countries do to women. None of this is right and no religion is without atrocities.
Unlike you who started a thread about cars being torched in Sweden and implied that it was immigrants even though you couldn't have known who did it. No agenda there at all.. you were just concerned about the cars, right?
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      08-15-2018, 04:37 PM   #32
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I'm so proud of Christians here, no one here attacked the op or made excuses for the catholic church!
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      08-15-2018, 05:35 PM   #33
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I'm so proud of Christians here, no one here attacked the op or made excuses for the catholic church!
I didn't criticise the OP or make excuses for the Catholic church either. Are you proud of me too, even though I'm not a Christian? However, I do believe in Jesus.
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      08-15-2018, 05:44 PM   #34
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I didn't criticise the OP or make excuses for the Catholic church either. Are you proud of me too, even though I'm not a Christian? However, I do believe in Jesus.
You attack people who criticize Islam though. You need to work on that.
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      08-15-2018, 05:56 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post

You attack people who criticize Islam though. You need to work on that.
Without wanting to hijack the thread...

It's called intellectual & mutually respectful debate (something which seems to be beyond your comprehension), in order to defend something that oneself believes in and telling others where there understanding is wrong and educating them, but at the same time also learning about them and their beliefs.....hopefully to minimise our collective ignorance.
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      08-15-2018, 06:46 PM   #36
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I'm so proud of Christians here, no one here attacked the op or made excuses for the catholic church!
I don't get why you have to make a statement like this other then to try and stir the pot. Can't we just debate the issue at hand?
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      08-15-2018, 08:51 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
My agenda is very simple and I have never shied away from it or tried to hide it when it comes to religion. Let me spell it out very easily.

1.) The church has not only raped an enormous amount of children, but has done nothing to change its behaviour. It should be held to account (which it has not).

2.) People tend to demonize Islam and act as if they are doing it based on the merits of the religion as if their own religions is squeaky clean and only Islamic people commit atrocities. I believe all religions should equally be held to account.

3.) My example of comparing Islam vs Catabolism is simply used as a tool show the hypocrisy and double standard. My point of people being more concerned if Islamic people would have committed these crimes then Catholics is valid and shows a very real issue which I believe is this: The hate for Islam is not about its religion or how it "oppresses its people". Its about using some examples to validate hating all people who follow Islam and justify racist remarks and policies. This is clearly shown when equal and in many cases more examples of abuse towards people come from the church without the same anger from the people who easily and quickly demonize islam.

This thread is a clear example of why I dislike all religions in addition to believe they are all fake. People need to wake up a little. Hold people equally accountable.

4.) I genuinely furious at any group of people that abuse children. I think any organization such as the church which has allowed such a culture should be held to account. The current pope should step down (as we would expect any other lead of an organization to do) a full and transparent investigation should be done, and rules should be set in place to ensure it NEVER happens again.

clear enough for you? Do you see an alterior motive?

I'm an atheist and while I have nothing against people who follow religion, I believe they are all fake. I do, however take issue when people act as if their religion's doesn't stink equally to another, and when they don't hold people to account for actions.
Most westerners dont know what hate is.
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      08-16-2018, 12:21 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
What a horrible tittle for a thread, but its both the tittle of the article from Fox and equal to the shock of reality for what is STILL happening within the church.



"A priest raped a 7-year-old girl while he was visiting her in the hospital after she'd had her tonsils removed. Another priest forced a 9-year-old boy into having oral sex, then rinsed out the boy's mouth with holy water. One boy was forced to say confession to the priest who sexually abused him."


"A new grand jury report says that internal documents from six Catholic dioceses in Pennsylvania show that more than 300 "predator priests" have been credibly accused of sexually abusing more than 1,000 child victims." (this is from Pennsylvania alone!!!!) Just image what people would be saying if Islam was responsible for 1,000 child rapes in one state.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/15...-children.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/us/pe...ury/index.html


I have a question which points to a level of denial and hypocrisy. Why do so many people rail against "Islam" as being the enemy of America when the dominating religion within the country is doing significantly more damage?

Its been 20 years since "sweeping reform" came to the church to stop abuses against children and yet "Priests were raping little boys and girls, and the men of God who were responsible for them not only did nothing; they hid it all."

Why don't we do a better job holding all abusers equally accountable? There seems to be a pattern in both politics and religion that is "as long as they are on my team they can do no wrong."

If a private sector company had similar culture of abuse against children as the church would we need completely destroy them?
"Doing significantly more damage [than Islam]?"

By whose measure - yours? Should we discuss the social acceptance of pederasty in Islamic countries like Afghanistan? Pakistan? Child marriage in Saudi Arabia, and many others?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

This is appalling, intolerable, and they should all be locked away for life.
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      08-16-2018, 12:31 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
You sooo want to make this about Catholicism vs. Islam. And taking a shot at our president saying that if this was Islam, he would do something about it. Admit it, you started this thread to push your pathetic agenda. Yes, this is a horrible story and yes, it's unfathomable that this is still going on. But, you're more concerned about pushing your agenda. As Anglo pointed out, go look at what some Muslim countries do to women. None of this is right and no religion is without atrocities.
My agenda is very simple and I have never shied away from it or tried to hide it when it comes to religion. Let me spell it out very easily.

1.) The church has not only raped an enormous amount of children, but has done nothing to change its behaviour. It should be held to account (which it has not).

2.) People tend to demonize Islam and act as if they are doing it based on the merits of the religion as if their own religions is squeaky clean and only Islamic people commit atrocities. I believe all religions should equally be held to account.

3.) My example of comparing Islam vs Catabolism is simply used as a tool show the hypocrisy and double standard. My point of people being more concerned if Islamic people would have committed these crimes then Catholics is valid and shows a very real issue which I believe is this: The hate for Islam is not about its religion or how it "oppresses its people". Its about using some examples to validate hating all people who follow Islam and justify racist remarks and policies. This is clearly shown when equal and in many cases more examples of abuse towards people come from the church without the same anger from the people who easily and quickly demonize islam.

This thread is a clear example of why I dislike all religions in addition to believe they are all fake. People need to wake up a little. Hold people equally accountable.

4.) I genuinely furious at any group of people that abuse children. I think any organization such as the church which has allowed such a culture should be held to account. The current pope should step down (as we would expect any other lead of an organization to do) a full and transparent investigation should be done, and rules should be set in place to ensure it NEVER happens again.

clear enough for you? Do you see an alterior motive?

I'm an atheist and while I have nothing against people who follow religion, I believe they are all fake. I do, however take issue when people act as if their religion's doesn't stink equally to another, and when they don't hold people to account for actions.
It's a good thing those non-religious governments have such a great track record

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...balism-8017041
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      08-16-2018, 07:04 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia
1.) The church has not only raped an enormous amount of children, but has done nothing to change its behaviour. It should be held to account (which it has not).
"The church" did no such thing. Individuals who happen to be members and leaders of the church have, and I agree that those individuals should absolutely be held accountable for their actions (along with anyone who protected such people), but the faith does not promote such behavior thus it cannot be said that membership in "the church" somehow means that one condones it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia
2.) People tend to demonize Islam and act as if they are doing it based on the merits of the religion as if their own religions is squeaky clean and only Islamic people commit atrocities. I believe all religions should equally be held to account.

3.) My example of comparing Islam vs Catabolism is simply used as a tool show the hypocrisy and double standard. My point of people being more concerned if Islamic people would have committed these crimes then Catholics is valid and shows a very real issue which I believe is this: The hate for Islam is not about its religion or how it "oppresses its people". Its about using some examples to validate hating all people who follow Islam and justify racist remarks and policies. This is clearly shown when equal and in many cases more examples of abuse towards people come from the church without the same anger from the people who easily and quickly demonize islam.
The difference, of course, is that Islam does actually promote abhorrent behavior as part of its doctrine. Not all religions teach the same things, nor do they all promote similar behaviors among their constituents. The concern about Islam is absolutely about the religion itself and how it oppresses people. The idea of a "moderate Muslim" is a farce - in Christianity such people would be considered "luke warm". They do not follow their claimed religion, they just identify with it for a given set of social benefits.

Further "Islamic" is not a race, thus one is not a racist for condemning Islam anymore than a Red Sox fan is a racist for talking smack about Yankees fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia
4.) I genuinely furious at any group of people that abuse children. I think any organization such as the church which has allowed such a culture should be held to account. The current pope should step down (as we would expect any other lead of an organization to do) a full and transparent investigation should be done, and rules should be set in place to ensure it NEVER happens again.
No arguments there. Personally I think situations such as this are great examples of why we should bring back public hangings.
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      08-16-2018, 09:24 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
Unlike you who started a thread about cars being torched in Sweden and implied that it was immigrants even though you couldn't have known who did it. No agenda there at all.. you were just concerned about the cars, right?

And who ended up torching the cars? Oh, that's right, one guy that was caught trying to escape back to Turkey. Just reporting the news. Don't bury your head and act like there are no immigrant problems there.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-set-fire.html
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      08-16-2018, 09:51 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by fravel View Post
"The church" did no such thing. Individuals who happen to be members and leaders of the church have, and I agree that those individuals should absolutely be held accountable for their actions (along with anyone who protected such people), but the faith does not promote such behavior thus it cannot be said that membership in "the church" somehow means that one condones it.
While I agree not every member is a rapist every member of the organization is culpable if they do not demand change and their leader to step down. Its unfortunate that better isn't expected from its members, and as a direct result of the complacency the culture of rape, abuse and coverups continues to thrives. God clearing isnt doing anything about it, so the people should stop praying for change and actually make it happen themselfs. These are your children for fuck sakes.

While it might not be writing in the fait to rape children the organization has developed an environment world wide where it does not hold the perpetrators accountable and worse defends them. If I was part of a group where the leaders were raping children at numbers never seen before you better believe I would be vocal to demand change.
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      08-16-2018, 09:57 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
"Doing significantly more damage [than Islam]?"

By whose measure - yours? Should we discuss the social acceptance of pederasty in Islamic countries [/url]

This is appalling, intolerable, and they should all be locked away for life.
I dont understand why you didnt quote what I actually wrote instead of changing what I wrote? Was it to change the narrative?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
I have a question which points to a level of denial and hypocrisy. Why do so many people rail against "Islam" as being the enemy of America when the dominating religion within the country is doing significantly more damage?

Im not talking about Islam in
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
pederasty in Islamic countries
. Im talking about the damage they are doing to your country vs the chruch. You just saw that over 1000 american children were raped by leaders of a religion in America, and yet the anger against the atrocity pails.

again imagine if it was found 1000 children were raped by Islamic leaders?

Dont get me wrong. Islam has its own issues i agree.
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      08-16-2018, 10:02 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
While I agree not every member is a rapist every member of the organization is culpable if they do not demand change and their leader to step down. Its unfortunate that better isn't expected from its members, and as a direct result of the complacency the culture of rape, abuse and coverups continues to thrives. God clearing isnt doing anything about it, so the people should stop praying for change and actually make it happen themselfs. These are your children for fuck sakes.

While it might not be writing in the fait to rape children the organization has developed an environment world wide where it does not hold the perpetrators accountable and worse defends them. If I was part of a group where the leaders were raping children at numbers never seen before you better believe I would be vocal to demand change.
Have you ever considered yourself to be part of a larger group - society? There's a metric ton of problems out there that you could be vocal about. This is one, and should be addressed and those involved (whether abusing, or covering up the abuse) held to account. But its not the only one, and there is nothing stopping you from making your voice heard and calling for change within the Catholic faith just because you aren't Catholic.

So do it.

While you are at it, I'd suggest also focusing on child marriages in the Middle East, polygamy / weird cults in America, etc.
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