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      10-10-2008, 01:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFastM3 View Post
now multiply 11 billion by lets say $80 per barrel. Then get 40% of that which will go to uncle sam. What do you get? A stronger $, better prices at the pump, lower debt, and ........ I'll let you use your imagination
obviously that would generate revenue, but not a long term solution. you drill, suck that honey hole dry, then what...we're right back where we started.
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      10-10-2008, 01:56 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by blakepilot View Post
obviously that would generate revenue, but not a long term solution. you drill, suck that honey hole dry, then what...we're right back where we started.
exactly!

The solution is alternative energy.

When will people realize that we have the technology to accomplish this?

Fossil fuels is old-technology that needs little to no use in certain markets.

Geothermal, wind, solar and wave are all major sources of clean natural energy. Use it!
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      10-10-2008, 01:59 PM   #25
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why not now?
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      10-10-2008, 02:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFastM3 View Post
I disagree with what you said about gas prices. Why? Supply & demand.

Agreed but, we still have some issues over there. Especially in this area:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...num=1&ct=image

That straight moves 40% of the WORLDS oil.


IS ANYONE GONNA DISAGREE WITH ME HERE ABOUT FM & FM?
You're digging deeper hole for yourself with every post.

THe oil prices are dependent on the S&D. Our gas prices are dependent on the oil prices -- at least it should be...
When the oil prices hit $140, dumb Bushies justified our pump prices with the oil price -- $4/gallon.
Now, for last 40 days, the oil prices were below $100 and still, our pump prices fell only 10-15%. Bush and his crooks are still ripping us off, and Bushie lovers somehow still blame it on S&D, Democrats and so on...

Wake up before it is too late...
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      10-10-2008, 02:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFastM3 View Post


for further proof if need be:



It's common knowledge that the big issue for this economic collapse was all the foreclosed homes due to F May & F Mac. The repubs tried to regulate them twice with 2 bills (2 & 4 years ago). The dems said nothing needed to be fixed cuz they we're bought out by Mac & May & shot down both bills. We wouldn't be in this mess in the 1st place if either of those bill would of past. We would have had the ability to stop it but now 1 in 6 homes are in forecloser due to people who knew they couldn't afford a buying a house did so anyways due to lack of regulation. Now the bubble popped, both companies went under in days, & (for the 1st time in US history) it's the honest tax payers (like myself) problem now to keep those people in their homes which they knew they couldn't afford to begin with. We are spending $700+ billion so that the government can buy up all of these foreclosed homes (SOCIALISM 101).

Also, the repubs tried to start drilling in AK in '96 & '00 to stop our dependency on foreign oil. That got shot down by the dems too both times. Now that it's a problem & the repubs that still want to drill, they are saying it'll take 10 years before we start feeling relief. Well they did try 12 & 8 years ago, didn't they? Imagine all those 100's of billions we spent out to the middle east & Venezuela that could have stayed here. Also, we would have been a much bigger player in the EXTREMELY LUCRATIVE oil trading business. Not to mention $2 a gallon gas for you & businesses alike.

In short, our biggest issues (Economy, Energy Crisis, Job Losses, Foreclosed Homes, weakening dollar & more) were all due to poor decisions made by the dems. Now they control congress & maybe soon the presidency.

Dems, Debunk away........

Voting records will come next......
As usual you are wrong. There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides and the truth about responsibility lies somewhere in the middle.

FACTCHECK.ORG
Who Caused the Economic Crisis?

MoveOn.org blames McCain advisers. He blames Obama and Democrats in Congress. Both are wrong.
By Joe Miller and Brooks Jackson | factcheck.org
Oct 1, 2008 | Updated: 9:30 a.m. ET Oct 2, 2008


Summary
A MoveOn.org Political Action ad plays the partisan blame game with the economic crisis, charging that John McCain's friend and former economic adviser Phil Gramm "stripped safeguards that would have protected us." The claim is bogus. Gramm's legislation had broad bipartisan support and was signed into law by President Clinton. Moreover, the bill had nothing to do with causing the crisis, and economists not to mention President Clinton praise it for having softened the crisis.

A McCain-Palin ad, in turn, blames Democrats for the mess. The ad says that the crisis "didn't have to happen," because legislation McCain cosponsored would have tightened regulations on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. But, the ad says, Obama "was notably silent" while Democrats killed the bill. That's oversimplified. Republicans, who controlled the Senate at the time, did not bring the bill forward for a vote. And it's unclear how much the legislation would have helped, as McCain signed on just two months before the housing bubble popped.

In fact, there's ample blame to go around. Experts have cited everyone from home buyers to Wall Street, mortgage brokers to Alan Greenspan.

Analysis
As Congress wrestled with a $700 billion rescue for Wall Street's financial crisis, partisans on both sides got busy pointing fingers. MoveOn.org Political Action on Sept. 25 released a 60-second TV ad called "My Friends' Mess," blaming Sen. John McCain and Republican allies who supported banking deregulation. The McCain-Palin campaign released its own 30-second TV spot Sept. 30, saying "Obama was notably silent" while Democrats blocked reforms leaving taxpayers "on the hook for billions." Both ads were to run nationally.

And both ads are far wide of the mark.
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      10-10-2008, 02:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
exactly!

The solution is alternative energy.

When will people realize that we have the technology to accomplish this?

Fossil fuels is old-technology that needs little to no use in certain markets.

Geothermal, wind, solar and wave are all major sources of clean natural energy. Use it!
Don't forget Nuclear Energy. I work in the Nuclear Utilities industry and you could include/conclude that Nuclear energy is also clean energy. I am a conservative independent and I do not support Bush except for his tax cuts. I think he is the reason why we are in this mess. The War in Iraq needs to stop, I do not support bailing out the financial sector because they should be able to bail out themselves not us (The taxpayer), I don't think drilling will not provide any short term solutions besides the price per barrel of oil right now is around 80 bucks, I support Alternative energy and Nuclear energy because its better for our environment, and Tax cuts is always good for the american people.
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      10-10-2008, 02:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKsBimmer View Post
As usual you are wrong. There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides and the truth about responsibility lies somewhere in the middle.

FACTCHECK.ORG
Who Caused the Economic Crisis?

MoveOn.org blames McCain advisers. He blames Obama and Democrats in Congress. Both are wrong.
By Joe Miller and Brooks Jackson | factcheck.org
Oct 1, 2008 | Updated: 9:30 a.m. ET Oct 2, 2008
Something in this just didn't make sense so I did a quick wiki on MoveOn.org

This is what i found:
MoveOn is an American non-profit progressive, liberal public policy advocacy group[2] and political action committee which has raised millions of dollars for candidates of the Democratic Party in the United States.[3] Formed in response to the impeachment of President Bill Clinton,[4] it has been cited in some accounts as a factor which helped propel the Democratic Party to power in the 2006 election.

Hardly bipartisan.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoveOn.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poderes1 View Post
Don't forget Nuclear Energy. I work in the Nuclear Utilities industry and you could include/conclude that Nuclear energy is also clean energy. I am a conservative independent and I do not support Bush except for his tax cuts. I think he is the reason why we are in this mess. The War in Iraq needs to stop, I do not support bailing out the financial sector because they should be able to bail out themselves not us (The taxpayer), I don't think drilling will not provide any short term solutions besides the price per barrel of oil right now is around 80 bucks, I support Alternative energy and Nuclear energy because its better for our environment, and Tax cuts is always good for the american people.
Agreed but, we need a short term solution as well. People seem to quickly forget how much of a mission it will be to completely retool the US to not depend on oil

--------------------------------------------

Last edited by ChrisFastM3; 10-10-2008 at 02:47 PM. Reason: added some stuff
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      10-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFastM3 View Post
Something in this just didn't make sense so I did a quick wiki on MoveOn.org

This is what i found:
MoveOn is an American non-profit progressive, liberal public policy advocacy group[2] and political action committee which has raised millions of dollars for candidates of the Democratic Party in the United States.[3] Formed in response to the impeachment of President Bill Clinton,[4] it has been cited in some accounts as a factor which helped propel the Democratic Party to power in the 2006 election.

Hardly bipartisan.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoveOn.org
As usual you didn't read my post. Everyone knows that MoveOn.org is a liberal 527 org. Go back and read the entire post and you'll see the article states that MoveOn blames McCain and McCain blames Obama and the Dems. Neither is completely right. They are both posturing politically.

Bottom line is your initial post is innacurate ... as usual.
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      10-10-2008, 04:00 PM   #31
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It all comes down to biased sources of info.

Stop watching Fox 'News' and you'll be ahead of the game.
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      10-12-2008, 05:00 PM   #32
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It all comes down to biased sources of info.

Stop watching Fox 'News' and you'll be ahead of the game.
I'm getting my news from voting records here gents. (something the dems have completely forgot about) Everything I posted was correct.

If those 2 bills would of past, we wouldn't be in this mess. We would still have an extra $700 billion in our pockets, A LOT less people would not be home owners in forcloser, gas prices would have been stable, a stronger $, and the list goes on & on

in short,

both bills had called out potential future problems. Both were right. Both bills pushed by the republicans. Due to both of these bills not passing, our country has suffered immensely for those mistakes. Where do the voting records point to who made the wrong call by a much greater majority? The democrats......
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      10-12-2008, 09:50 PM   #33
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Why is it that people don't like to admit when the Republicans are wrong?

Are the Republicans perfect angels that never make mistakes?

This is some serious BS.
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      10-13-2008, 01:16 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
Why is it that people don't like to admit when the Republicans are wrong?

Are the Republicans perfect angels that never make mistakes?

This is some serious BS.
I'll flip the coin & ask you the same question with the dems.

This is not BS. 1 & 6 homes are under forcloser due to a HUGE potential problem (at the time) that the repubs had the intelligence & insight to see. The dems, that were paid off by FM & FM, saw (or chose not to see) no problem. Mr Obama was the #2 most paid in the list btw & all the top paid were all dems. Hmmmm......

Do you remember when gas hit almost $5 a gallon? What did that do to our economy & our working class citizens? The repubs had the same intelligence & insight 12 years ago when they saw a big potential problem (once again, at the time) of not being independent with our energy supplies & wanting to drill in AK.

In both instances they did not roll over & take it in the rear from the dems. They fought back to try to pass both bills again but, the bribery was already too deep with the dems & now we're paying for it.

Those 2 "BS" instances, cost the US 700,000 jobs, a weaker $, soaring gas prices, an economy in economic ruin, a world wide financial panic, prices for almost everything in the constant rise, & MUCH MUCH more.

Voting records do not not lie & neither do the money trails...... It's the only thing in politics you cant "spin".

Since voting records seems to be a new radical way to figure out how our leaders think, try looking up Obama voting records while your at it. He does have the #1 most liberal voting record in congress. 2nd place is first self-described socialist elected into Senate, Bernie Sanders of VT.
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      10-13-2008, 01:34 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by blakepilot View Post
obviously that would generate revenue, but not a long term solution. you drill, suck that honey hole dry, then what...we're right back where we started.
Which will be YEARS down the road. Many decades.


In the meantime, alternate sources will be explored and hopefully implemented.


You can't expect alternate energy to all of a sudden appear.

Just like you cannot cease drilling or even slow it down during this time. The oil and gas reserves are there.
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      10-13-2008, 01:50 PM   #36
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You can't expect alternate energy to all of a sudden appear.
i realize, but at the same time the technology is there. if there was as much money spent on the proliferation of alternative energy sources as there is on finding new sources of oil we could make big strides faster. but the only problem is governments, oil companies, prospectors, investors, and anyone in between make a boat load of money off oil so you can imagine the resistance in the inner circles. i have a lot of friends in oil and gas; they unilaterally HATE the alternative energy idea. it's all about $$$.
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      10-14-2008, 07:43 PM   #37
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We still need oil no matter what during these changes. We need a short term & long term plan. Not just throwing a lot of money towards the future & hoping it'll all change sooner or later. What happens if, God forbid, gas prices hit to where it is in Holland currently now during this changing process? We would be economically F'd in the A in laymans
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      10-15-2008, 02:05 AM   #38
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why even bother blaming a certain party?? blame all the politicians period... they all suck...
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      10-15-2008, 08:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakepilot View Post
i realize, but at the same time the technology is there. if there was as much money spent on the proliferation of alternative energy sources as there is on finding new sources of oil we could make big strides faster.


Who's going to fund it?

Do you actually think that oil companies and investors are going to readily fund alternate energy research? Why on earth would they do that?

Just because there is a lack of funds going towards alternative energy research, why should drilling cease? How can you possibly think that companies should cease their operations and all of a sudden begin investing in programs that will ultimately put them out of business? That is not their job. Their job is to find oil and gas.

If God forbid Obama gets elected and he throws a windfall profits tax on the oil companies, I hope that a portion of that tax will be put into AE research. It definietly NEEDS to be researched and implimented.


"DRILLING IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!!"

In the long term, I would agree with you. In the long term, we need to have alternate sources of energy developed. But in the short term, we must drill to simply keep our economy afloat.
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      10-15-2008, 09:53 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFastM3 View Post
We still need oil no matter what during these changes. We need a short term & long term plan. Not just throwing a lot of money towards the future & hoping it'll all change sooner or later. What happens if, God forbid, gas prices hit to where it is in Holland currently now during this changing process? We would be economically F'd in the A in laymans
I don't know what gas prices are doing in Holland, but I believe we are going under $3 a gallon in the U.S. We'll probably see oil prices drop to under $60 a barrell. As the recession deepens, we could see oil drop back to $35 a barrell.
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      10-15-2008, 11:21 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsport323 View Post
why even bother blaming a certain party?? blame all the politicians period... they all suck...
I'll repeat again why you can blame the democratic party..... VOTING RECORDS & MONEY TRAILS FROM FM & FM

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
I don't know what gas prices are doing in Holland, but I believe we are going under $3 a gallon in the U.S. We'll probably see oil prices drop to under $60 a barrell. As the recession deepens, we could see oil drop back to $35 a barrell.
I'll throw out a scenario for ya. In between Iran & Dubai there is a small straight that 40% of the WORLDS oil goes through. If Iran really wanted to hurt us, they would line up missiles & threaten to sink oil tankers (or even worse, sink em). The tankers would not go through & due to speculative pricing controlling 80% of gas prices, prices would shoot through the roof, destroying the US economy.

btw, gas prices in Holland are about 6.50 USD.
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