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      09-16-2021, 05:26 AM   #23
nosnoop
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Gimmicky technology
Sure it's clever no denying but it is not required
If you cannot park a car your self you should not have a driving license
This is getting ridiculous.
When we use adaptive cruise control or traffic jam assist, is it because we don't know how to drive in highway or in traffic jam???
When we use the 360 degree surround view, is it because we don't know how to turn our head or look at the mirror???
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      09-16-2021, 07:01 AM   #24
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There is a lot of gimmicky technooogy around in general. Companies feeling that there has to be constant changes , constant "improvements" . Lots of form over function
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      09-16-2021, 07:54 AM   #25
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This just goes to show how far Tesla FSD is ahead of the pack.
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      09-16-2021, 07:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by KaptainKloss View Post
This just goes to show how far Tesla FSD is ahead of the pack.
Yeah, so far ahead

https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/statu...816609285?s=20

Edit: So far ahead, exhibit 2: https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/statu...579423233?s=20
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      09-16-2021, 08:17 AM   #27
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Lol ok, at least the car can do much more than park itself. I never said it was perfect, its very much still a work in progress, but the progress is profound. Do you see BMW using a supercomputer to learn from daily driving situations? Don't think so...
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      09-16-2021, 08:43 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roch M4 View Post
2 years ago I've got an X2 loaner when my M4 was in for an oil service. I tested the automatic parking feature...the car was going to fast when parking that it hit the sidewalk, scratched the wheel and damaged a little the tire...these feature only works on optimal conditions...
That's because with the self-parking in the X2, the driver is responsible for controlling speed. The car only manages steering, and the messages on the iDrive display when utilizing that function inform the driver of all of this.

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Originally Posted by AP View Post
This winds me up for 3 reasons - ok rant coming up!

Car wash, why why why? This will not be kind to the paint but unlike us here , most people don't care and clean cars in the same manner that they clean the kitchen

Gimmicky technology
Sure it's clever no denying but it is not required
If you cannot park a car your self you should not have a driving license

Steering wheel.
Why oh why is this not round?
Why do we not learn from previous mistakes?
Reference the Austin allegro. (Google that if you are not from the U.K.) which had a squarish steering wheel, never a success
How do you feed this wheel through your hands as you steer?
The person who signed that off need their head examined and should be fired. What an earth were they thinking??
The car wash thing is something people who truly care about their cars' paint will never win with. Even modern touchless car washes won't get off as much dirt/grime as ones with brushes/mops/cloths/whatever do, so for most people who couldn't tell a backyard $50 "detail" from a $3000 full paint correction + ceramic coat job, the "touch" car washes will always win. I don't agree with it, but I'm accepting of it.

Regarding the tech being gimmicky, again I can see that but people just think they need it. If they think they need it, they will look for it in their next car, and if Brand X doesn't offer it but Brand Y does, Brand Y will get their business. That's why nearly every single remotely modern car on the road today has so many aids and assists and helpers. That's just what the market demands, and every single major car company out there is a for-profit, publicly traded company, so they WILL oblige.
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      09-16-2021, 09:05 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainKloss View Post
Lol ok, at least the car can do much more than park itself. I never said it was perfect, its very much still a work in progress, but the progress is profound. Do you see BMW using a supercomputer to learn from daily driving situations? Don't think so...
BMW and other so called "legacy manufacturers" are offering hands free driving on the highway/motorway up to a speed of something like 40 mph today. I can literally spec the Driving Assistant Pro package on any recent BMW and get that.

Tesla on the other hand can't even manage regular cruise control on the highway/motorway without the risk of random phantom braking and potentially causing a fatal pile up.

I know which one I'd rather have and it's not the super computer.
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      09-16-2021, 10:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilla91 View Post
BMW and other so called "legacy manufacturers" are offering hands free driving on the highway/motorway up to a speed of something like 40 mph today. I can literally spec the Driving Assistant Pro package on any recent BMW and get that.

Tesla on the other hand can't even manage regular cruise control on the highway/motorway without the risk of random phantom braking and potentially causing a fatal pile up.

I know which one I'd rather have and it's not the super computer.
I can attest the phantom braking is no joke.... however, I can count on one hand how many of those situations I've encountered on an A-road at speed (70-80mph). It usually involves an overpass or glare from the sun. I've experienced it several times on local roads, usually winding where there is a significant elevation change. It's not perfect by any stretch, but on A-roads, it's pretty stable.
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      09-16-2021, 10:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zilla91 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainKloss View Post
Lol ok, at least the car can do much more than park itself. I never said it was perfect, its very much still a work in progress, but the progress is profound. Do you see BMW using a supercomputer to learn from daily driving situations? Don't think so...
BMW and other so called "legacy manufacturers" are offering hands free driving on the highway/motorway up to a speed of something like 40 mph today. I can literally spec the Driving Assistant Pro package on any recent BMW and get that.

Tesla on the other hand can't even manage regular cruise control on the highway/motorway without the risk of random phantom braking and potentially causing a fatal pile up.

I know which one I'd rather have and it's not the super computer.
Hands free driving is nothing revolutionary. If you look at Fords "Blue" driving system it requires hands on the wheel when the car detects even the slightest curve in a highway. What? How is that smart and what problem does that solve? Thats supposed to be "hands free"? Hands free driving is not FSD, it's a cop out of an option.

I love how everyone rags on Tesla but nobody seems to understand that technology has its growing pains. This is across every industry with any new innovation. You're afraid of phantom braking on a highway? Ok, fair point, don't use Autopilot on any 65MPH public road, at least not yet.

I'm also a BMW fan but the fact is, it is a legacy automaker. Another fact is, they just postponed L3 autonomous releases for the near future. Given where the skilled engineers are going and what they want to work on, the writing is on the wall.
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      09-16-2021, 11:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainKloss View Post
Hands free driving is nothing revolutionary. If you look at Fords "Blue" driving system it requires hands on the wheel when the car detects even the slightest curve in a highway. What? How is that smart and what problem does that solve? Thats supposed to be "hands free"? Hands free driving is not FSD, it's a cop out of an option.

I love how everyone rags on Tesla but nobody seems to understand that technology has its growing pains. This is across every industry with any new innovation. You're afraid of phantom braking on a highway? Ok, fair point, don't use Autopilot on any 65MPH public road, at least not yet.

I'm also a BMW fan but the fact is, it is a legacy automaker. Another fact is, they just postponed L3 autonomous releases for the near future. Given where the skilled engineers are going and what they want to work on, the writing is on the wall.
the autonomous driving problem is very hard and the OEMs have decided the amount of risk (i.e. hands off the wheel) they allow.

Also, no one has L3 available. They're all working on it... investing heavily in hardware and developers to build their respective systems (I work with a couple of them). The easy part is keeping speed with the vehicle in front... staying in the lane... etc...most brands do that very well. The hard part is all the unknown variables... road debris, animal, pedestrian, random thing falling out of the truck in front.... and that's not even the local driving... intersections, 4-way stop, yielding to other traffic, and a slew of other things that I haven't written... It's gonna take a _long_ time before it's anywhere near "full" autonomy vs assisted driving.... no matter what Elon says.... which is usually BS.
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      09-16-2021, 11:49 AM   #33
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What's going on here as this is of course way over and above self parking.

Is this a feature that it will go and find a space itself?

Then the summon works (much better than Telslas it seems if true)?

Then the car wash (ignition the scandal of an automatic wash ) … what was going on there, it will drive to a point and wait and then you summon again?

Lots of questions but if that was real time great tech.
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      09-16-2021, 12:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosnoop View Post
This is getting ridiculous.
When we use adaptive cruise control or traffic jam assist, is it because we don't know how to drive in highway or in traffic jam???
When we use the 360 degree surround view, is it because we don't know how to turn our head or look at the mirror???
I guess you'd prefer to do math longhand or maybe a slide rule??
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      09-17-2021, 12:22 AM   #35
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I would love to see a demo in an underground garage 2 floors below 0 where there is no cellular reception…

For sure this will fail.

So in reality you would drop off your car at the valet drop off point only to discover later that all the cars are standing behind each other on the downhill part between -1 and -2 because that's where cellular reception failed…
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      09-17-2021, 11:14 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post
I would love to see a demo in an underground garage 2 floors below 0 where there is no cellular reception…

For sure this will fail.

So in reality you would drop off your car at the valet drop off point only to discover later that all the cars are standing behind each other on the downhill part between -1 and -2 because that's where cellular reception failed…
LOL... yeah, that's not how it's going to work. features like this shouldn't need a persistent connection to the network/cloud.
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      09-18-2021, 10:32 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBahn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post
I would love to see a demo in an underground garage 2 floors below 0 where there is no cellular reception…

For sure this will fail.

So in reality you would drop off your car at the valet drop off point only to discover later that all the cars are standing behind each other on the downhill part between -1 and -2 because that's where cellular reception failed…
LOL... yeah, that's not how it's going to work. features like this shouldn't need a persistent connection to the network/cloud.
Agreed, but they will always require it as they require quite a lot of computational power to make a gazillion decisions per millisecond. And there is where 5G will come into play,

And before 5G is installed in every underground parking down to level -4, we'll be 10 years in the future at least.
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      09-21-2021, 01:04 PM   #38
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Can't wait till this tech matures. I hate spending time looking for a parking spot and going to the car wash. Yes I can park and wash my own car but why do it if the car has the ability to drop me off at the front door, park and wash itself then pick me up?

Going to be a bunch of problems to solve before we get there but I'm sure we will eventually. Can't wait!
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      09-21-2021, 06:45 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBahn View Post
the autonomous driving problem is very hard and the OEMs have decided the amount of risk (i.e. hands off the wheel) they allow.

Also, no one has L3 available. They're all working on it... investing heavily in hardware and developers to build their respective systems (I work with a couple of them). The easy part is keeping speed with the vehicle in front... staying in the lane... etc...most brands do that very well. The hard part is all the unknown variables... road debris, animal, pedestrian, random thing falling out of the truck in front.... and that's not even the local driving... intersections, 4-way stop, yielding to other traffic, and a slew of other things that I haven't written... It's gonna take a _long_ time before it's anywhere near "full" autonomy vs assisted driving.... no matter what Elon says.... which is usually BS.

Agree with you 100%. We are no where near "FULL" autonomy. My estimation is 2035. I am talking about self drive capability that require NO human intervention at all where you can literally sleep in your car. One must also remember that our entire highways, freeways, and roads would have to be converted gradually to "smart" roads to accommodate this leap. I'll be surprised if we achieve this before the mid 2030s.
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      09-21-2021, 11:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP View Post

Steering wheel.
Why oh why is this not round?
Why do we not learn from previous mistakes?
Reference the Austin allegro. (Google that if you are not from the U.K.) which had a squarish steering wheel, never a success
How do you feed this wheel through your hands as you steer?
The person who signed that off need their head examined and should be fired. What an earth were they thinking??
My thoughts completely. An oddly shaped steering wheel is preferable to the traditional round because? Can anyone name even one advantage?
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      09-22-2021, 02:09 AM   #41
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Classic "form before function"

That should not have progressed any further than some idiots idea!

I would love to speak with who came up with and get rational….
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      09-22-2021, 02:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post
Agreed, but they will always require it as they require quite a lot of computational power to make a gazillion decisions per millisecond. And there is where 5G will come into play,

And before 5G is installed in every underground parking down to level -4, we'll be 10 years in the future at least.
inferencing will always be done more efficient/faster at the edge (i.e. the vehicle).... 5G is a component, but more to do with car-to-car/smart-road/smart-city integration piece of the puzzle. What happens when there is a network outage (rogue backhoe, hardware failure, etc)?? You need the system to function, at least in a reduced state... you can't do that if there is a major dependence on the network.
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Last edited by BimmerBahn; 09-22-2021 at 03:00 PM..
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      10-05-2021, 09:19 PM   #43
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Love the car but I really don't like the look of the steering wheel
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