[phantom701]

My issue with the i4 is really how BMW promised the concept car being 90% of what the actual production i4 would be. That was so far from reality...

I will NOT buy another ICE and I had been actively looking for a good EV. I was patiently waiting for the i4 hoping that it has great technology.

Instead, what BMW came up with is basically a pig with electric lipstick... (ok, I know the analogy sucks )

I wished the i4 would be a true EV contender. Maybe it is designed for 80% of the BMW owners, but they lost me as a client. I had been a long time multi-BMW driver with multiple European Delivery experience.

Tesla is not the best car manufacturer but has the best technology and EV. They are miles ahead of anyone with their battery technology. The AI is no joke, especially if you watched Tesla AI day. The basic autopilot is really good. FSD is not too far behind. BMW is still learning to spell AI.

Had the i4 included what it promised, I would have placed an order. What happened to the full glass roof? What happened to the futuristic interior?

I would be ok to deal with less range. But everything in the production i4 screams yesterday's technology. Not only that, BMW with its German roots is nickel and diming on just about every feature that comes standard in cheap $20,000 car.

Just getting fed up with BMW being so complacent.

[InsideDK]

Originally Posted by BklynNYBMW

I had the opportunity to do a test marketing for BMW over the weekend at the Meadowlands in New Jersey this past Saturday for the i4 and the ix. For comparison there was the Tesla3 for the i4 and the Tesla Model X for the BMW ix
The i4 does have a better quality build but the range needs to be improves. Also because it is a grandcoupe there is not much trunk space even with the rear seats folded. Also there is not a front hood storage area as under the hood is not a storage space. Cannot see how BMW dropped the ball on that one. The interior is mostly out of the current 3/4 series. The new flat panel dash is slightly curved and the graphics are very sharp and well done
The IX is a really big car/SUV / station wagon. Whatever it is. Much more room than the Model X and yes better materials. However the Tesla Model X I thought had much better materials than the Tesla model 3. Might be due to the price point. All very interesting cars but I agree with most here, BMW will need to have better range on their upcoming electric. Juts my 2 cents.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
2017 X6 5.0 MSport, Carbon Black Metallic w/ black leather. All options except vented seats and B/O sound system. AKA the Tumbler
2021 M340i xdrive. Tanzanite Blue with W/Oyster with Red Calipers. All options except Adaptive M suspension, Driver Assistance Professional Package, Cooling and High Performance Tire package. AKA Blue Angel
*Retired 04/30/21: 2018 340i MSport Xdrive sedan. Glacier Silver w/Oyster. All options except active cruise control and window shades. AKA Airstream

Did you test the range of the i4 yourself or are you referring to the official numbers from BMW?

If you don't drive like a maniac you can get very high ranges from the i4. So I think we need to see some head to head comparison with the model 3 before we can say how far behind it is

[Encanto]

Originally Posted by eljay

I hate to post this, but.... yes, I like the i4 M50 idea.
The only thing that I want to complain about is that it's a GT-styled sedan.
Make this into a hatch and Touring and I would take one (in 10 years when they depreciate wnough for me to afford it).
Nice work BMW!

It is a hatch.

[lnaukkar]

Originally Posted by phantom701

Had the i4 included what it promised, I would have placed an order. What happened to the full glass roof? What happened to the futuristic interior?

iX happened, there you got interior and glass roofs


To be honest, the real world range and consumption of iX3 is very very good. iX3 is the first to use this new generation electric drive train. I'm hoping i4 will be a blast range-wise. I really don't see significant difference between i4 M50 and Tesla model 3 performance in range. And I wont talk more about Tesla here, don't get me started.

[Penguino]

It is expensive.

430i $45K
M440i $58K
X5 xDrive45e starts at $63K
M3 Sedan $69K

Model 3 Standard Range $39K
Model 3 Long Range $49K
Model 3 Performance $59K

BMW i4 $54K
BMW i4 M50 $65K

It's nearly $10K more than the comparable ICE and $15K-$16K than a comparable Model 3. Just because it has batteries does not mean it should be more expensive than an ICE.

"Let's save the planet!" And put all the burden on consumers while corporations are making 20-30% more per vehicle.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by KaptainKloss

Battery range on the m50 is trash. If their goal was to have this compete with a model S or high performance model 3 they have already failed. Otherwise, the car had potential.

Not everyone needs a 500-mile long-hauler. Some people just commute with their cars, and 200-mile ranges are perfectly adequate.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by phantom701

Instead, what BMW came up with is basically a pig with electric lipstick... (ok, I know the analogy sucks )

Looks are subjective, but ok.

Originally Posted by phantom701

Tesla is not the best car manufacturer but has the best technology and EV. They are miles ahead of anyone with their battery technology. The AI is no joke, especially if you watched Tesla AI day. The basic autopilot is really good. FSD is not too far behind. BMW is still learning to spell AI.

I would generally agree that Tesla is far from the best car manufacturer, and that their main strengths are in battery technology, infrastructure proliferation, and autonomous driving technology. But the fact that they call it "AutoPilot" when it's far from a true, all-weather Level-5 autonomous system, means that their customers are serving as uncompensated beta testers and, occasionally, paying the price when the system fails.

Originally Posted by phantom701

Had the i4 included what it promised, I would have placed an order. What happened to the full glass roof? What happened to the futuristic interior?

All-glass roofs are a dumb gimmick, IMHO. They're super heavy, fragile, and expensive to repair. BMW likely made a fiscal and/or practical decision not to use them.

I think iDrive 8 looks very promising, actually. And I suspect many (most?) BMW customers prefer a more traditional cockpit design, rather than a sparse Ikea living room with an iPad bolted front and center. But maybe that's just me.

Originally Posted by phantom701

I would be ok to deal with less range. But everything in the production i4 screams yesterday's technology. Not only that, BMW with its German roots is nickel and diming on just about every feature that comes standard in cheap $20,000 car.

This is hardly new, or unique. Have you looked at a Porsche order form recently?

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Given the announced OEM plans to drop ICE development and the various national regulatory requirements announced that will ban ICE vehicles from sale in the next decade or two, I don't think EVs are any more inevitable now than were ICE vehicles when almost everyone had a horse and buggy.


Kidding aside, I think we are in the middle of a fundamental transformation in the motor vehicle industry that will be far more obvious to future historians than many now recognize.

Ugh... I meant to say "Let's not pretend EV's are NOT inevitable."

[eljay]

Originally Posted by Encanto

It is a hatch.

Well, we can argue that definition, but this is a liftback, not a hatchback.
I want a hatchback or wagon.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by eljay

Well, we can argue that definition, but this is a liftback, not a hatchback.
I want a hatchback or wagon.

Someone...get out a protractor...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liftback

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

I would generally agree that Tesla is far from the best car manufacturer...

I would also agree with you and consider that both of us are prone to understatement. These results were published for 2021MY yesterday. I guess one could do worse and get an Audi.

[eljay]

This whole range anxiety thingy feels to me like the megapixel wars.
Everyone wanted the biggest megapixel numper camera only to leave it in auto mode and take only a handful of pics in their life anyway.
But all manufacturers were selling on that number and consumers buying regardless of the actual need.

For my travel pattern and having a second ICE vehicle, ANY of the current EV offerings would serve me well. Even something like an e-Golf with only 125 miles would be just fine.

[eljay]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Someone...get out a protractor...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liftback

Hehe

[KaptainKloss]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I would also agree with you and consider that both of us are prone to understatement. These results were published for 2021MY yesterday. I guess one could do worse and get an Audi.

You probably took two screenshots of some article and photoshopped the last bit that included tesla. If you're going to post references do it without taking snapshots. I don't want to see that kind of nonsense.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I would also agree with you and consider that both of us are prone to understatement. These results were published for 2021MY yesterday. I guess one could do worse and get an Audi.

Doesn't that study include design-oriented complaints (in particular with complex infotainment systems) that go beyond manufacturing quality measures? I think that's why more complex vehicles tend to score lower. (Not that I doubt Tesla has plenty of traditional quality control issues as well.)

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

Doesn't that study include design-oriented complaints (in particular with complex infotainment systems) that go beyond manufacturing quality measures? I think that's why more complex vehicles tend to score lower. (Not that I doubt Tesla has plenty of traditional quality control issues as well.)

Yes, you are correct. To the degree that a design element is considered a "problem", consumers may report it as well as items not well assembled.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/aut...lity-study-iqs

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

I think iDrive 8 looks very promising, actually. And I suspect many (most?) BMW customers prefer a more traditional cockpit design, rather than a sparse Ikea living room with an iPad bolted front and center. But maybe that just me.

You are not alone. One of the main reasons we bought out Leaf+ is that it looks like a normal 4 door hatch. More importanly, the interior looks and works like a traditional car too. It has buttons for HVAC and heated seats, a volume knob, etc. I don't want to have to go through several menus and sliders and what not on a giant screen just to do simple stuff.

Take a look at the new VW interface in the GTI/Golf R. That is my biggest nightmare. And its odd that they went with this design given they went back to buttons in the Audi interior. I love the eTron GT interior.

I think it is some how cool for people to show their friends this simple "modern" interior when they get a tesla, but once you have to use a system like it everyday, it can be infuriating and dangerous with how long your eyes are of fthe road. Again I site the reviews for the new VW system.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by therealm3

You are not alone. One of the main reasons we bought out Leaf+ is that it looks like a normal 4 door hatch. More importanly, the interior looks adn works like a traditional car too. It has buttons for HVAC and heated seats, a volume knob, etc. I dont' want to hav eot go through several menuals and sliders and what not on a giant screen just to do simple stuff.

Indeed, though I'm concerned BMW might be getting sucked into that direction, especially as HVAC controls have now been relegated to the digital interface. At least the volume knob (and a few others) are still real/tactile.

[Staszek]

Originally Posted by Penguino

It is expensive.

430i $45K
M440i $58K
X5 xDrive45e starts at $63K
M3 Sedan $69K

Model 3 Standard Range $39K
Model 3 Long Range $49K
Model 3 Performance $59K

BMW i4 $54K
BMW i4 M50 $65K



It's nearly $10K more than the comparable ICE and $15K-$16K than a comparable Model 3. Just because it has batteries does not mean it should be more expensive than an ICE.

"Let's save the planet!" And put all the burden on consumers while corporations are making 20-30% more per vehicle.

EVs are more expensive to make at this point, so it being more expensive then the M440 by $7k isnt a big deal. Especially with the incentives back it negates that.

BTW I am not sold on the i4, but it is also not a direct competitor for the Model 3. It sits in between the Model 3 and the Model S.

Its not priced that much higher than the Model 3 and is well below the Model S.

I said it in another thread its not the price that is going to hurt the i4.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I think the point was missed. I used "brand" and could have used "corporation". This is the BMWAG strategy to maintain platform flexibility at least throughout the 2020s. It may please or displease any individual, but for their business and engineering reasons, this is their intentional path. It's a strategy and not an excuse...even if you do not agree with it. You might choose to buy from a company with a different strategy. Most in the market will have no knowledge of platform powertrain versatility.

Platform design and range are not inherently correlated, so I do not understand the choice you are creating. An advance in battery technology could be adapted to an EV-only platform (floorpan, cowl) or to a platform which can accept more than an EV powertrain.

In any event, there is nothing on the horizon Tesla could do to persuade me into any of their generally inferior (other than powertrain) products. Further, I am in the segment of the market that will carefully specify my vehicles to avoid any/all self driving technology.

The market's overall selection for an EV will be based on attributes and deliverables that meet or exceed each consumer's threshold requirements. Discussions of platform architecture are for body and suspension engineers and a select portion of forum members. When consumers see and drive the vehicles and know the actual capabilities, then decisions will be made.

Do you consider the Tesla charging infrastructure inferior to BMWs?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Do you consider the Tesla charging infrastructure inferior to BMWs?

Not at all. The Tesla infrastructure appears to be superior to all. I am a Tesla rejecter purely due to the car, other than the powertrain. I would stay with ICE before acquiring any Tesla. I actually had a deposit on a Model 3 a year before launch waiting to see what they would produce. Once I saw what they considered commercial for shipping to the public, when I reviewed a supposedly prepared showroom model, I canceled and my deposit was refunded. Subsequent large-sample, owner-reported data about their vehicles appears to support my concern. Great infrastructure, leading edge powertrain/batteries as of now, but the rest of the car falls too far below what I consider acceptable.

EDIT: Thinking about the quality leaps in the new JDP data for Ram and Dodge brands, once far toward the bottom, I should clarify that I am a rejecter of all current generation Teslas. If and when they launch a completely new generation Model 3 or Model Y, I would be open to considering them again to see how far they advanced. We are all works in progress.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Not at all. The Tesla infrastructure appears to be superior to all. I am a Tesla rejecter purely due to the car, other than the powertrain. I would stay with ICE before acquiring any Tesla. I actually had a deposit on a Model 3 a year before launch waiting to see what they would produce. Once I saw what they considered commercial for shipping to the public, when I reviewed a supposedly prepared showroom model, I canceled and my deposit was refunded. Subsequent large-sample, owner-reported data about their vehicles appears to support my concern. Great infrastructure, leading edge powertrain/batteries as of now, but the rest of the car falls too far below what I consider acceptable.

EDIT: Thinking about the quality leaps in the new JDP data for Ram and Dodge brands, once far toward the bottom, I should clarify that I am a rejecter of all current generation Teslas. If and when they launch a completely new generation Model 3 or Model Y, I would be open to considering them again to see how far they advanced. We are all works in progress.

Understood I thought/think the same and maybe my visit to see a 2021 Model3 left me impressed as my expectations were so low based on feedback such as this.

I'll see how a test drive goes.