[phantom701]

When I bought my very first BMW, BMW was the most innovative car company. BMW pioneered the iDrive. Initially panned by a bunch of idiots but copied and adopted by many soon afterwards. BMW's ICE engine is powerful yet efficient. Plus many more.

I was waiting very patiently in the last few years for an EV from BMW. Alas, the i4 is a big disappointment. Especially when compared to their promises of how the concept i4 was 90% similar to the production car.

Here's what I like about the i4.
- The new iDrive 8 with the wide screen. That's cool.
- Heads-up Display.
- Various creature comforts.
- 360 view of vehicle -> ease of parking.
- Apple Car Play.

Here's what I would have done with the i4:
1. Full glass roof. This is not new. Even many ICE vehicles have made this available for years. Why BMW changed its mind on the i4 is inexplicable...
2. Change the outdated gear shift. Even the i3 shifter would have been better
3. Even though the iDrive 8 screen is cool, BMW's visual is horrible and un-innovative. Worse than Audi's virtual cockpit that's been out for almost a decade
4. Intelligently remove unnecessary buttons while keeping those that people care about. Don't go overboard like Tesla
5. Frunk. Just look at how the Ford F150 is able to turn that into something special. Maybe the Frunk is not often used, but it is a crumble zone offering proven safety as shown in Tesla
6. Get rid of the stupid tunnel in the back seat that is completely unnecessary with an EV
7. Get serious about autonomous driving technology. Perhaps even start with the open source commaai/openpilot to catch up

Unfortunately for me, I have to move on from BMW after years of ownership. I cannot wait for BMW to figure out how to build an innovative EV. I want an EV now and BMW ain't it.

[4monks]

Originally Posted by phantom701

When I bought my very first BMW, BMW was the most innovative car company. BMW pioneered the iDrive. Initially panned by a bunch of idiots but copied and adopted by many soon afterwards. BMW's ICE engine is powerful yet efficient. Plus many more.

I was waiting very patiently in the last few years for an EV from BMW. Alas, the i4 is a big disappointment. Especially when compared to their promise of how the concept i4 was 90% similar to the production car.

Here's what I like about the i4.
- The new iDrive 8 with the wide screen. That's cool.
- Heads-up Display.
- Various creature comforts.
- 360 view of vehicle -> ease of parking.
- Apple Car Play.

Here's what I would have done with the i4:
1. Full glass roof. This is not new. Even many ICE vehicles have make this available for years. Why BMW changed its mind on the i4 is
2. Change the outdated gear shift. Even the i3 shifter would have been better
3. Even though the iDrive 8 screen is cool, BMW's visual is horrible and innovative. Worse than Audi's virtual cockpit that's been out for almost a decade
4. Intelligently remove unnecessary buttons while keeping those that people care about. Don't go overboard like Tesla
5. Frunk. Just look at how the Ford F150 is able to turn that into something special. Maybe the Frunk is not often used, but it is a crumble zone offering proven safety as shown in Tesla
6. Get rid of the stupid tunnel in the back seat that is completely unnecessary with an EV
7. Get serious about autonomous driving technology. Perhaps even start with the open source commaai/openpilot to catch up

Unfortunately for me, I have to move on from BMW after years of ownership. I cannot wait for BMW to figure out how to build an innovative EV. I want an EV now and BMW ain't it.

Agree with most of what you say. The i4 is a deliberate compromise appealing to those not ready for a complete change with most of the positive features of the current series 3/4 ICE cars, a few new ones, but naturally inheriting the shared platform negatives. Those comfortable with the latest ICE cars features, who want EV will adopt. The iX is more indicative of BMWs dedicated EV platform direction - serious money though.... Happy EV hunting - keep us updated on your contenders and where you land.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by phantom701

Here's what I would have done with the i4:
1. Full glass roof. This is not new. Even many ICE vehicles have made this available for years. Why BMW changed its mind on the i4 is inexplicable...
2. Change the outdated gear shift. Even the i3 shifter would have been better
3. Even though the iDrive 8 screen is cool, BMW's visual is horrible and un-innovative. Worse than Audi's virtual cockpit that's been out for almost a decade
4. Intelligently remove unnecessary buttons while keeping those that people care about. Don't go overboard like Tesla
5. Frunk. Just look at how the Ford F150 is able to turn that into something special. Maybe the Frunk is not often used, but it is a crumble zone offering proven safety as shown in Tesla
6. Get rid of the stupid tunnel in the back seat that is completely unnecessary with an EV
7. Get serious about autonomous driving technology. Perhaps even start with the open source commaai/openpilot to catch up

Unfortunately for me, I have to move on from BMW after years of ownership. I cannot wait for BMW to figure out how to build an innovative EV. I want an EV now and BMW ain't it.

Always interesting to read about different preferences and you did note that this is how you'd design it...ostensibly for yourself. For some of these, there are competing desires/factors leading to another outcome. Is the added weight and cost of that glass panel of value to most buyers? I'd have to be sure the shade screen underneath was always closed in our southwest melanoma-inducing desert climate. Much prefer a solid steel roof with no sunroof at all. #2, 3, and 4 aren't significant considerations for me. Completely agree on #5. That's a lost opportunity, but I'll wager that BMW designs the car to IIHS Top Pick requirements anyway. Based on how often the rear seat is 3-across occupied, is it worth the investment and cost for a unique floorpan change from the 4 Series for a relatively low volume run? I wouldn't look for it as long as the two outboard seats have good space. Lastly, I'd hope they don't spend another nickle or 5 minutes on autonomy instead of other projects. Be late to the market, let the others figure out what hasn't worked well for anyone so far. Once it launches and works reliably, in a couple of decades, make sure we can order cars without any autonomous technology...don't want it at all.

[USA-RET]

I'd have built the concept car....................(or at least 85% of it as promised)

[Hansn]

One thing that strikes me when comparing the i4 consept car to the production model is that they are actually VERY similar.. So much that i think alot of people forgrt to even look at it properly because they have seen the 4 series coupe production model to much before i4/GC was revealed.
If you look away from the copper trim and concept colors there is not much difference.. Even the interior is close. The side profile is almost identical to the concept for instance.

I do agree that it would be nice to see more of the small chsnges to the interior that is on the concept, that they use on the iX but not the i4. Most of all i feel like they should have done something to the steering wheel, as alot of people had the same wheel on other ICE cars since 2017 already.
They could do more to some small things such as gear shifter, the door panels could be abit more futuristic(like the ambient effect on the new 2 series), i also dont get why they don't do more with ambient lighting in general like mercedes is doing. Its such a cheap tech now to instal and make all colors available that its wierd to me that they limit it so much, even the little lights they do instal people have to tweak and code to get such a basic color option as red.. etc.. There is obviously alot of room to improve and make it abit more special without it bring complicated or expensive at all..

[phantom701]

With regards to the glass roof, Tesla managed to build the car in a way that's extremely efficient. In fact, their Model 3 and Model Y are superior in their efficiency compared to the i4 with no glass roof. Worse, the BMW i4 is EXTREMELY heavy!! WHY??!! It just shows how far behind BMW is on EV.

If you compared to the concept i4, it has a ton of other creature comforts. If you just go back to watching this video, you'll see how far off the 85% similarity the concept car is to the actual production car.

A huge missed opportunity!

[Hansn]

Its so similar its almost the same car.
Obvious things like mirrors, headlights and rear lights are different in a concept car way but still the same. Then there is the interior, its super close but they skipped going for all the "new" stuff, probably because they want to avoid the ICE G26/22/20 cars look like they are from the last generation. Its bad enough for them that they dont get idrive8.

They could probably make panoramic roof available and thats about it. All the small quirks and design changes on the interior we will have to wait 5 years for due to the fact that they are still selling already available production cars with combustion engines on this platform that has an interior that probably was ready 5 years ago. I dont see any other logical reason why they go crazy on the IX and not the I4.

The center console with gear change buttons i think they could get away with. It looks similar and not to crazy on the concept to make ICE car buyers jealous.. 😂

Looking at the weight did you consider that you cant legally have 4 fullgrown men in a model 3? Atleast in europe. While the i4 can have 1600kg tow weight and probably has more than 360kg load capacity.

In the end its probably going to be a way better car than tesla model 3 in every way possible when looking at every single aspect of car ownership. The comparing of these 2 cars is so wrong i often wonder why we dont hear more about KIAs and Hyundais. Ok teslas have big HP in their cars but thats it.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Hansn

Its so similar its almost the same car.
Obvious things like mirrors, headlights and rear lights are different in a concept car way but still the same. Then there is the interior, its super close but they skipped going for all the "new" stuff, probably because they want to avoid the ICE G26/22/20 cars look like they are from the last generation. Its bad enough for them that they dont get idrive8.

They could probably make panoramic roof available and thats about it. All the small quirks and design changes on the interior we will have to wait 5 years for due to the fact that they are still selling already available production cars with combustion engines on this platform that has an interior that probably was ready 5 years ago. I dont see any other logical reason why they go crazy on the IX and not the I4.

The center console with gear change buttons i think they could get away with. It looks similar and not to crazy on the concept to make ICE car buyers jealous.. 😂

Looking at the weight did you consider that you cant legally have 4 fullgrown men in a model 3? Atleast in europe. While the i4 can have 1600kg tow weight and probably has more than 360kg load capacity.

In the end its probably going to be a way better car than tesla model 3 in every way possible when looking at every single aspect of car ownership. The comparing of these 2 cars is so wrong i often wonder why we dont hear more about KIAs and Hyundais. Ok teslas have big HP in their cars but thats it.

As someone that has driven BMW for 30 years+; a Model 3 is not in the same league as the i4 M50.

People can complain about the weight, the Model 3 is faster and lighter but to get there they made so many decisions that make a Model 3 not a drivers car like a BMW.

There is nothing motivating me to buy a Model 3. BMW already has my deposit money for an i4 M50.

[phantom701]

Originally Posted by Hansn

Looking at the weight did you consider that you cant legally have 4 fullgrown men in a model 3? Atleast in europe. While the i4 can have 1600kg tow weight and probably has more than 360kg load capacity.

Ohh... why is it illegal to have 4 full grown men in a Model 3? Or are you just merely joking?

I am actually not getting a Model 3 but a different Tesla. I really didn't want to get a Tesla and look like any other person here in California. Because in California, almost every other person now owns a Tesla because the legacy manufacturers are so lazy and bad. I was hoping BMW would wise up so I could remain a loyal BMW owner and drive a unique BMW EV. Alas, that won't be the case...

In fact, I'm the last holdout amongst my BMW friends who all got rid of their BMWs for Teslas. It's a common trend here. Unfortunately, BMW is NOT listening.

By the way, in the most recent report in Norway, in just a few days of Model Y launching into the country, it has already claimed EV marketshare leadership. The market has spoken despite what BMW wants people to think.

I also saw some of the news coverage last week where BMW, VW showed off their stupidly unrealistic concept cars. I am really curious the values of these stupid shows if none of the vehicles will be real. What a waste of resources just to show whose dick is bigger.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by phantom701

I am actually not getting a Model 3 but a different Tesla. I really didn't want to get a Tesla and look like any other person here in California. Because in California, almost every other person now owns a Tesla because the legacy manufacturers are so lazy and bad. I was hoping BMW would wise up so I could remain a loyal BMW owner and drive a unique BMW EV. Alas, that won't be the case...

In fact, I'm the last holdout amongst my BMW friends who all got rid of their BMWs for Teslas. It's a common trend here. Unfortunately, BMW is NOT listening.

I live in the Bay Area also.

I agree, one reason not to get a tesla is everyone else has one.
But I ask you what do you want from BMW?

In terms of the Model 3, it's clearly not a luxury car with my daughter's Bolt having a better interior than a Model 3. She leather, heated seats, etc...
Does it have the range of a Model 3? No but 250 is far enough.
I also trust the Bolt a lot more in an accident. She had a 2017 Bolt and someone ran a light at literally took the front off the car. Cabin stayed complete and she had no injuries. Bolt > Model 3.

Back to BMW i4 M50 vs Model 3 Performance
I'd rather be in a i4 M50 than a Model 3 if there is an accident.


The Model 3 Perf with "full self driving" is $68K
The i4 M50 with everything is going to run $77K (approx)
Remove $7500 for the federal tax credit (USA) that you won't get for the Tesla and we are in the same ballpark.

On the BMW I will get M Sport leather seats (in more colors than just black or white), a leather dash, a paint color that I like that most likely isn't orange peeled to death. I get BMW fit and finish. I get BMW service, etc.
I get a head up display, gauges in front of me, Apple and Android integration, BMW assist, HK sound.

So why is the i4 M50 less attractive than a Model 3 Performance?

[phantom701]

I'm not getting a Model 3. Not sure where you think I am.

The Model 3 is absolutely safer than the BMW. You can read the NHTSA reports.

I already shared my reasoning on why the i4 is very unattractive, the main reason I started this post. It's simply based on outdated tech intended for a different audience.

BMW's tech leadership in the early 2000s simply vanished.

[lnaukkar]

Originally Posted by phantom701

The Model 3 is absolutely safer than the BMW. You can read the NHTSA reports.

Oh yeah well, in euroncap tests BMW scores better for adult occupants, child occupants and vulnerable road users. Meanwhile, Model 3 scores higher for safety assist systems. But they are both top of the (same) class, so i wouldn't think theres really a difference in practise or that one is more or less safe than the other.

Just funny Teslas are considered "more safe" than anything else because of mr. Musk's tweets although they all score same 5 stars as everyone else ...

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Hansn

Its so similar its i

In the end its probably going to be a way better car than tesla model 3 in every way possible when looking at every single aspect of car ownership. The comparing of these 2 cars is so wrong i often wonder why we dont hear more about KIAs and Hyundais. Ok teslas have big HP in their cars but thats it.

Better than the Model 3 in every possible way.

Except Range
Except Performance 0-60
Except price
Except bespoke dedicated supercharger network (at time of writing we know it might open up)
Except pano roof
Except tech
Except standard features


It is a BMW and I hope it develops well but it's so incorrect to say this is better than Tesla in fanboy speak.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Better than the Model 3 in every possible way.

Except Range
Except Performance 0-60
Except price
Except bespoke dedicated supercharger network (at time of writing we know it might open up)
Except pano roof
Except tech
Except standard features


It is a BMW and I hope it develops well but it's so incorrect to say this is better than Tesla in fanboy speak.

Therefore McDonald’s is superior because it’s cheaper, everywhere, and the menu has more of features/variety than many others? If “stuff” beats basic quality for you, OK, but one doesn’t need to be a “fanboy” to reach the opposite conclusion. Tesla is just too low quality for many of us, as reported by its own owner body. I’d take a lower content almost anything else before any Tesla.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Therefore McDonald's is superior because it's cheaper, everywhere, and the menu has more of features/variety than many others? If "stuff" beats basic quality for you, OK, but one doesn't need to be a "fanboy" to reach the opposite conclusion. Tesla is just too low quality for many of us, as reported by its own owner body. I'd take a lower content almost anything else before any Tesla.

If you say so

I was merely replying to the poster suggesting the i4 would be superior to the T M3 in every area.

Surely many of those items I have listed are extremely relevant to an EV purchase, range….acceleration, charging network…no?

Would I give almost any BMW a thumbs up on quality over T M3 yup probably but that's one area and sorry where I see hyperbole I often reply with fact.

[phantom701]

Originally Posted by lnaukkar

Just funny Teslas are considered "more safe" than anything else because of mr. Musk's tweets although they all score same 5 stars as everyone else ...

Let's just be factual and truthful instead of making things up guys.

This is not just Elon tweeting about them being safest. This is actual government test results via https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings. If you search for BMW, it has mostly 5 stars with the exception of one category which is 4 stars. Teslas all get 5 stars.

And you are correct, BMW and Tesla are both very safe vehicles. I wouldn't have owned so many BMWs over the years if that wasn't the case. I was merely responding to someone who said the Chevy Bolt was safer which is untrue.

Furthermore the Bolt will self combust because of the bad LG batteries. Even GM is telling their customers to park their vehicles outside their homes.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Better than the Model 3 in every possible way.

Except Range
Except Performance 0-60
Except price
Except bespoke dedicated supercharger network (at time of writing we know it might open up)
Except pano roof
Except tech
Except standard features


It is a BMW and I hope it develops well but it's so incorrect to say this is better than Tesla in fanboy speak.

We have to wait and see the performance.
if you look at lure numbers the power to weight and torque to weight are almost identical.

A fully loaded 3 is close to $68k and the i4 M50 will be approx $9k more but you get a $7.5k tax credit (US) so it's a wash. You also get leather, more colors, a screen
in front of you, BMW service, etc.

The super charger network is fine but I have Level 2 at home. I don't plan to go to 400 miles a day. If I do I'll plan accordingly.

Tech? Don't believe the hype. The Model 3 is Level 2 autonomous if you pay $10k and the BMW is Level 2 with the options. You also don't get some safety features with the 3; like cross traffic. You also don't get Android or Apple integration.

Pano roof? I prefer a roof that opens.

Standard features? Leather? Nope, interior colors? As long as you like black or white. Paint colors? Nope.

The Model 3 does not say almost $70k worth of luxury. My daughter's Bolt has better fit and finish than a 3 and she has leather.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

We have to wait and see the performance.
if you look at lure numbers the power to weight and torque to weight are almost identical.

A fully loaded 3 is close to $68k and the i4 M50 will be approx $9k more but you get a $7.5k tax credit (US) so it's a wash. You also get leather, more colors, a screen
in front of you, BMW service, etc.

The super charger network is fine but I have Level 2 at home. I don't plan to go to 400 miles a day. If I do I'll plan accordingly.

Tech? Don't believe the hype. The Model 3 is Level 2 autonomous if you pay $10k and the BMW is Level 2 with the options. You also don't get some safety features with the 3; like cross traffic. You also don't get Android or Apple integration.

Pano roof? I prefer a roof that opens.

Standard features? Leather? Nope, interior colors? As long as you like black or white. Paint colors? Nope.

The Model 3 does not say almost $70k worth of luxury. My daughter's Bolt has better fit and finish than a 3 and she has leather.

In the U.K. it perhaps >£10k difference once optioned like for like.

Some examples of the standard tech are surround view off, comfort access. Electric seats.

For sure colour and interior choices are highly limited but as I was looking at Mineral White on black anyway would be more than happy.

Not looking for a battle here but I guess it's started anyway. Again at least a few of my points are pure fact and thus the i4 is not superior to the T M3 in every way.

Let's end with a hug and say the i4 is the best though

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Surely many of those items I have listed are extremely relevant to an EV purchase, range….acceleration, charging network…no?

You raise an interesting point. Is more of those attributes always better or is there a threshold over which it doesn’t matter much. Range? With recharging at home at will and never taking long road trips, anything over 200 miles would be fine for a couple of weeks. Acceleration? Equal to or exceeds my 330i GT is fine. Charging network? No foreseeable need to be that far away with the car. Airport is 15 minutes. I realize that’s just me, but once any of us have enough of what we need, no motivation to trade off quality, for one example, to get a car that gets to Kroger a half second sooner or has range that won’t be fully utilized.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by JustChris

In the U.K. it perhaps >£10k difference once optioned like for like.

Some examples of the standard tech are surround view off, comfort access. Electric seats.

For sure colour and interior choices are highly limited but as I was looking at Mineral White on black anyway would be more than happy.

Not looking for a battle here but I guess it's started anyway. Again at least a few of my points are pure fact and thus the i4 is not superior to the T M3 in every way.

Let's end with a hug and say the i4 is the best though

Here in the states the tech is a wash because even the base i4 has electric seats and other things just aren't options.

people.that like the Model 3 like the Model 3. I have nothing against them, but saying a Model 3 is absolutely better than an i4 is baiting for an argument on a BMW forum.

This article says it all about the QC of Tesla
SFGate: Brand-new Tesla Model Y goes viral after it seemingly comes 'filthy,' riddled with defects.
https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/...r-16444175.php

There are things that are deal breakers to me at the price point we are talking and leather is that deal breaker.

[phantom701]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

This article says it all about the QC of Tesla
SFGate: Brand-new Tesla Model Y goes viral after it seemingly comes 'filthy,' riddled with defects.
https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/...r-16444175.php

There are things that are deal breakers to me at the price point we are talking and leather is that deal breaker.

Yes, the QC is still a major issue. However, you can actually tell Tesla that you have an issue and they will fix them. The problems people are reporting are primarily cosmetic instead of fundamental.

Tesla is disrupting how traditional OEMs are doing business. There's a reason why Tesla grew like a wild fire. Being in the tech industry, I have seen how many old guards being put out to pasture because of their arrogance.

I love my BMWs. Unfortunately, I feel BMW is falling way behind. Luxury is not the primary reason people buy Tesla. Just like the BMW, Tesla offers a new end-to-end experience that people love and are willing to deal with the minor obstacles.

Isn't dealing with obstacles and overcoming them a part of life?

And let me repeat once again. I love my BMWs. I'm a techie and I favor tech over old school stuff.

One more thing. I would have ordered the i4 had BMW followed through with the innovations that they showed. Instead they regressed.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Better than the Model 3 in every possible way.
...
Except tech

Except Except there is no Cross Traffic Alert, no 360 degree Surround View, no Apple Music support/CarPlay, no blind spots indicators and you can't even set a waypoints for Tesla navigation (something my 10 years old Garmin can do).