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      03-01-2021, 02:11 PM   #23
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I loved all 33,000 miles I put on mine over four years of ownership. I drove it as a daily driver and my only car on Maui. I drove it up and down California. I drove it across the country. I drove it through a full Maine winter.

It never failed to entertain me. I never failed to look back at it with anything but fondness. It's a spirited canyon carver and a silent pedestrian hunter. It's a radical design and a comfortable freeway cruiser. It's a conversation starter and a grocery getter. It requires a little bit of flexibility to get in and out, and mastery of yoga to extract one's self from the back seat.

If you are expecting Taycan Turbo acceleration, you'll be disappointed. It it quick enough? Yes. For nearly everyone.

If you are expecting it to be anything else other than what it *is*, go whine somewhere else. If you waited until it had lost half its retail value to buy a used one, you have no right to complain about why BMW didn't continue the line. It's an expensive halo car, and you didn't buy enough of them (new, from BMW) for BMW to keep it alive.

In the future history books it will be grouped with the 507, the e30 M3, the e39 M5, and the Z8 as the greatest BMWs ever.
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I own no garage queens. If it's in my driveway, it's been ridden hard and put away wet. ...and now, with a light crust of Maine road salt.
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      03-12-2021, 01:39 PM   #24
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I have a model 3, had a souped up Q50 and got a new i8 with a 40k discount.

I love driving the car. Its fast enough to make you smile and usably so. I find the car interior good overall, the right mix of modern and quality. Its got enough space to take 4 ppl around.

It's a special car, at MSRP I wouldn't be a fan but with the discounts, it is definitely amusing. I was considering an M4 but I am paying a similar amount for a truly unique relatively usable supercaresque experience.
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      03-14-2021, 12:19 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I think the reason the i8 gets flack in reviews is that it looks like a sports car/exotic.

If you go into it expecting a GT car, it's actually great. Plenty fast to be fun, a back seat for small children, can't rust, light weight, better handling than your average GT, economical, super comfortable, and stable at speed.

If you go in comparing it to a 911 or Corvette (or exotic), it's slow, not overly grippy, and not very feelsome.
?? Its faster than a 911 carrera and about the same as an S in the real world. Its clearly not going to compete with the Turbo or GT3! I would never describe the i8 as slow!
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      03-15-2021, 02:45 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Maxxsirrah View Post
?? Its faster than a 911 carrera and about the same as an S in the real world. Its clearly not going to compete with the Turbo or GT3! I would never describe the i8 as slow!
I mean, it isn't. Base 911 0-60 is in the 3s, i8 is in the 4s.

It's not slow. It's plenty quick to be fun. It's just not fast-- and certainly nowhere near as fast as it looks, which is really the problem it runs into with reviews IMO.
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      03-15-2021, 03:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I mean, it isn't. Base 911 0-60 is in the 3s, i8 is in the 4s.

It's not slow. It's plenty quick to be fun. It's just not fast-- and certainly nowhere near as fast as it looks, which is really the problem it runs into with reviews IMO.
I beg to disagree. Everything is relative and those are just numbers. The push that you get from the i8's electric torque just cant be matched in an ICE car. 0-60 times are a false method of judging a cars overall real world performance. Porsche have long been known for long gearing their cars, which really helps there 0-60 times as second gear is well suited to take you all the way there. .
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      03-15-2021, 05:27 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxxsirrah View Post
I beg to disagree. Everything is relative and those are just numbers. The push that you get from the i8's electric torque just cant be matched in an ICE car. 0-60 times are a false method of judging a cars overall real world performance. Porsche have long been known for long gearing their cars, which really helps there 0-60 times as second gear is well suited to take you all the way there. .
The 911 is faster from any speed of your choosing to any speed of your choosing. They’re gearing is not at all 0-60 targeted. Modern Porsches end 2nd at 80-90mph. 0-60 targetted gearing ends 2nd at 60 or just over.

Torque is generally a negative in sports cars and a benefit in GT cars. If you think about all the great driving/sports cars, they’re all low torque high HP— miatas, real M cars, ferraris, Porsche Gt cars, s2000, maclaren F1, etc. Sports cars reward the experience of driving, and low torque high rpm horsepower enhances that— working for the power makes for a more involving driving experience. In ferraris modern cars, they turn down the torque in all but the highway cruise gears to recreate that experience on a turbo engine.

GT cars are about effortless comfortable speed, which is where torque is a positive... and what the i8 is. Torque, automatic trans, comfort over feedback, etc. It’s a GT car that looks like a sports car.

Being a GT car isn’t a bad thing, it’s just a different thing. The looks make people expect a sports car, which I think is why the i8 suffers in reviews— it’s not what it looks like.
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      03-15-2021, 06:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The 911 is faster from any speed of your choosing to any speed of your choosing.
Depends on which 911 you're referencing. If you're comparing the i8 to my prior 997-911 Turbo, sure, the Turbo is much quicker. Whereas, I've been able to surpass the 911: 4S, Carreras, and the Cayman GT4s (which I think is a far better track handling car than the 911s), with the i8 on the track.

As to whether the i8 is just a GT, IMO, the i8 is a sports car. It just so happens to be engineered with a more forgiving ride, nearing the Porsche Taycan suspension territory. The i8 is pretty quick and is every bit of a sports car with respect to its nimble handling and mid-range torque when spirited driving comes into play, albeit even better with a proper set of wider profile tires and definitely a larger battery capacity, needed for the track.

IMO, there's more to a sports car than just 0-60 or quarter-mile times. If not, then the Tesla S should be thrown into the sports car fray. To view the i8 as strictly a GT would be undeserving for such an iconic BMW car.

Last edited by YWGT3; 03-16-2021 at 09:48 AM..
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      03-15-2021, 11:17 PM   #30
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Honestly, I don't think one can argue the merits of the i8 if you have not driven one extensively. Clearly it is designed with more than 0-60 or Nordschleife times. It is more than 'GT or Sports car'. I would rather drive the i8 as a DD, and take a long trip, than in a 911 or 'vette, so in that sense it is more of a 'GT'.
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      03-16-2021, 07:37 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGT3 View Post
Depends on which 911 you're referencing. If you're comparing the i8 to my prior 997-911 Turbo, sure, the Turbo is much quicker. Whereas, I've been able to surpass the 911 4S, Carreras, and the Cayman GT4s (which I think is a far better track handling car than the 911s), with the i8 on the track.
I meant any contemporary 911. The 997 came out in 2004. Certainly, yes, the i8 is faster than lots of old 911s. I'm sure it's faster than every 1960s 911, as well :P

Passing cars on tracks is proof of nothing about the car, only driver. I routinely pass GT3s, MacLarens, Corvettes, etc in my e46 M3. It is not anywhere near as fast as any of those cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGT3 View Post
As to whether the i8 is just a GT, IMO, the i8 is a sports car. It just so happens to be engineered with a more forgiving ride, nearing the Porsche Taycan suspension territory. The i8 is pretty quick and is every bit of a sports car with respect to its nimble handling and mid-range torque when spirited driving comes into play, albeit even better with a proper set of wider profile tires and definitely a larger battery capacity, needed for the track.

IMO, there's more to a sports car than just 0-60 or quarter-mile times. If not, then the Tesla S should be thrown into the sports car fray. To view the i8 as strictly a GT would be undeserving for such an iconic BMW car.
There is more to being a sports car then 0-60 for sure. It's about feedback (i8 steering is dead), engine dynamics (i8 engine dynamics are GT like, not sports car like-- sports cars are peaky), and involvement with the machine (i8 is only available with any automatic trans and all wheel drive, and you don't have a ton of control over how the machine does what it's doing (where it allocates power, etc)).

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
Honestly, I don't think one can argue the merits of the i8 if you have not driven one extensively. Clearly it is designed with more than 0-60 or Nordschleife times. It is more than 'GT or Sports car'. I would rather drive the i8 as a DD, and take a long trip, than in a 911 or 'vette, so in that sense it is more of a 'GT'.
I COMPLETELY agree the i8 is a better DD. GT cars make great DDs. Sports cars, that are real sports cars (I'd say only the GT 911s still are) are inherently pretty terrible DDs-- and even worse for road trips. The very things that make the i8 not a sports car are exactly what allows it to be great for DD use or road trips. Always accessible power (torque), automatic shifting, nice NHV isolation, effortless speed-- these are all things that make for a pleasant daily/road trip car, but detract from a sports car experience.

I'm not trying to describe the i8 as a bad car- I think it's great at what it's great at. I'm trying to explain that the reason it gets so much hate is that it's not what it looks like, so it doesn't meet the expectations people have when they see it. It looks like a sports car/almost exotic, but drives like a GT car. It's like if people went in to see Avengers, but were shown gone with the wind. Gone with the wind isn't a bad movie, but if you went in expecting gone with the wind... it's not what you were expecting.

I'm not arguing against the i8. I've been debating getting one for a long time (basically try to decide if it's ownable in the long term, as I don't really like to sell cars). But, if I do, its role in the fleet would be my DD/road trip car-- as that's where it excels.
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      03-16-2021, 04:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I meant any contemporary 911. The 997 came out in 2004. Certainly, yes, the i8 is faster than lots of old 911s. I'm sure it's faster than every 1960s 911, as well :P

Passing cars on tracks is proof of nothing about the car, only driver. I routinely pass GT3s, MacLarens, Corvettes, etc in my e46 M3. It is not anywhere near as fast as any of those cars.



There is more to being a sports car then 0-60 for sure. It's about feedback (i8 steering is dead), engine dynamics (i8 engine dynamics are GT like, not sports car like-- sports cars are peaky), and involvement with the machine (i8 is only available with any automatic trans and all wheel drive, and you don't have a ton of control over how the machine does what it's doing (where it allocates power, etc)).



I COMPLETELY agree the i8 is a better DD. GT cars make great DDs. Sports cars, that are real sports cars (I'd say only the GT 911s still are) are inherently pretty terrible DDs-- and even worse for road trips. The very things that make the i8 not a sports car are exactly what allows it to be great for DD use or road trips. Always accessible power (torque), automatic shifting, nice NHV isolation, effortless speed-- these are all things that make for a pleasant daily/road trip car, but detract from a sports car experience.

I'm not trying to describe the i8 as a bad car- I think it's great at what it's great at. I'm trying to explain that the reason it gets so much hate is that it's not what it looks like, so it doesn't meet the expectations people have when they see it. It looks like a sports car/almost exotic, but drives like a GT car. It's like if people went in to see Avengers, but were shown gone with the wind. Gone with the wind isn't a bad movie, but if you went in expecting gone with the wind... it's not what you were expecting.

I'm not arguing against the i8. I've been debating getting one for a long time (basically try to decide if it's ownable in the long term, as I don't really like to sell cars). But, if I do, its role in the fleet would be my DD/road trip car-- as that's where it excels.
Do you own or have you extensively driven an i8? If not then I suggest that you're talking out of your bottom. And the i8 has had some great reviews, I could post links in here if I didn't have better things to do, but as this is an i8 forum I would've thought that you would've found them by now. The i8 is a sports car when you want it to be, a GT when you want it to be, and it looks like a supercar and it is every bit as fast as any 'normal' 911 in the real world.
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      03-16-2021, 07:52 PM   #33
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Lightbulb Great insights. But a question from a potential new owner.....

I'm considering buying a coupe.
...sat in one and REALLY got turned off by the rear seat comfort.
BUT, it got me thinking and wanted to ask current owners this:
Can the back support of the rear seat be removed - so as to gain and extra inch or two of backward room, so you don't feel so hunched over?
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      03-16-2021, 11:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShehuAsset View Post
I'm considering buying a coupe.
...sat in one and REALLY got turned off by the rear seat comfort.
BUT, it got me thinking and wanted to ask current owners this:
Can the back support of the rear seat be removed - so as to gain and extra inch or two of backward room, so you don't feel so hunched over?
Don’t know if you could remove the rear seat backs but I suspect that you probably can. It would look pretty ugly though.
The back seats are mostly just a place to throw your jacket or stick children.
What do you care anyway? You’ll be in the front.
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      03-17-2021, 05:24 AM   #35
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Even for the kids (one is a teen-ager), I would want them to have a little more room back there. They loved seeing the car and I would want to them to enjoy riding in it.

And all this would be simply for a ride no longer than 30minutes or so. (We live in CT, I can get anywhere in 30minutes!)
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      03-17-2021, 09:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShehuAsset View Post
Even for the kids (one is a teen-ager), I would want them to have a little more room back there. They loved seeing the car and I would want to them to enjoy riding in it.

And all this would be simply for a ride no longer than 30minutes or so. (We live in CT, I can get anywhere in 30minutes!)
I have a 15 and 13 year old. I would say 30 min trips in the back is the limit. They aren’t particularly tall. If we are 4, for anything above 20 min we take the tesla M3

Also depends on the height of the front passenger. Best bet is to take all the peeps for a test drive , teenagers love the car
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      03-17-2021, 09:28 AM   #37
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Would anybody who gets this mind trying something for me?

Can someone try taking off the seat back and see how much of a difference it makes?
(I would have to drive an hour to the closest one for sale to try it)

I saw online that it can be removed by pushing the seat back straight up.

Much appreciated.
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      03-17-2021, 03:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShehuAsset View Post
Would anybody who gets this mind trying something for me?

Can someone try taking off the seat back and see how much of a difference it makes?
(I would have to drive an hour to the closest one for sale to try it)

I saw online that it can be removed by pushing the seat back straight up.

Much appreciated.
I had them out once. But they are only about 3cm thick. So you wont get much more hight/space.
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      03-18-2021, 11:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I meant any contemporary 911. The 997 came out in 2004. Certainly, yes, the i8 is faster than lots of old 911s. I'm sure it's faster than every 1960s 911, as well :P
I believe the 0-100km/h time for the i8 was benchmarked against the 2014 Porsche 911 Carrera, which had a time of 4.6s as opposed to the i8's 4.4s. Even the 2014 Carrera 4s has a listed 0-100km/h time of 4.3s. However, both 911s have a higher top speed and would probably be better on the track (I'm guessing).

What's a bit sadder is the 2014 911 Carreras being offered for more money than a 2014/5 BMW i8 -- at least here in Oz (check out https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7107956/?Cr=3). This, despite the fact only 155 BMW i8s were sold in Australia to the [collective noun] of Porsche 911s.
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      03-19-2021, 01:12 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by BanjoPaterson View Post
I believe the 0-100km/h time for the i8 was benchmarked against the 2014 Porsche 911 Carrera, which had a time of 4.6s as opposed to the i8's 4.4s. Even the 2014 Carrera 4s has a listed 0-100km/h time of 4.3s. However, both 911s have a higher top speed and would probably be better on the track (I'm guessing).

What's a bit sadder is the 2014 911 Carreras being offered for more money than a 2014/5 BMW i8 -- at least here in Oz (check out https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7107956/?Cr=3). This, despite the fact only 155 BMW i8s were sold in Australia to the [collective noun] of Porsche 911s.
It is sad, but Porsches, especially 911's and the 'collectable' Boxster/Caymans (GT4/GTS/Spyder) do seem to hold their values remarkably well considering the volumes of sales. I've never understood it as I look at the cost of a 3 year old 911 and think I may as well buy new!
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      03-19-2021, 10:36 AM   #41
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I think its a given that the i8 was overpriced for the performance it delivered.

Once the price per performance reaches comparable cars it will settle to at least a normal depreciation cycle. I think the perk of the uniqueness, beauty of the car and a long with the fawning younger generations over the car will be an added plus. It seems like most car people under 30 are entranced by the car (our future buyers)
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      03-19-2021, 12:43 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesubmitter View Post
I think its a given that the i8 was overpriced for the performance it delivered.

Once the price per performance reaches comparable cars it will settle to at least a normal depreciation cycle. I think the perk of the uniqueness, beauty of the car and a long with the fawning younger generations over the car will be an added plus. It seems like most car people under 30 are entranced by the car (our future buyers)
In 2015, you wanted a carbon fiber tub car with highly advanced hybrid drivetrain: the choice was: 918, LaF, McL P1 and... wait for it: i8.

Whilst arguably less fast and desirable than the holly trinity, it was VERY sought after. I remember when waiting for my 1st car, they were trading at 30% over list for a while.

The cost of building the i8 to start with was astronomical and they had to ramp up production massively to get to scale economies. Also without i3 success, it would have been commercially unviable. The carbon factory they built for both cars had to be amortized.

Bottom line? The ONE and ONLY reason why the i8 is overlooked these days is because BMW produced far too many versus what they said they would.

If they had not, people would have seen it as the new M1 etc...

Simple as that. Nothing to do with performance.

A 288gto is worth £2-3mln whilst a 488 costing 1/15th of that goes twice as fast etc...
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      03-23-2021, 11:21 AM   #43
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Disagree on the 'steering is dead'. It is not. AWD and regen braking impose constraints, but the feel and precision are very good, better than my prior M3 for sure. Ditto for handling. I do have a 2019 version with some minor mods, but the car is quick (0-100kph 3.8) and handles great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I meant any contemporary 911. The 997 came out in 2004. Certainly, yes, the i8 is faster than lots of old 911s. I'm sure it's faster than every 1960s 911, as well :P

Passing cars on tracks is proof of nothing about the car, only driver. I routinely pass GT3s, MacLarens, Corvettes, etc in my e46 M3. It is not anywhere near as fast as any of those cars.



There is more to being a sports car then 0-60 for sure. It's about feedback (i8 steering is dead), engine dynamics (i8 engine dynamics are GT like, not sports car like-- sports cars are peaky), and involvement with the machine (i8 is only available with any automatic trans and all wheel drive, and you don't have a ton of control over how the machine does what it's doing (where it allocates power, etc)).



I COMPLETELY agree the i8 is a better DD. GT cars make great DDs. Sports cars, that are real sports cars (I'd say only the GT 911s still are) are inherently pretty terrible DDs-- and even worse for road trips. The very things that make the i8 not a sports car are exactly what allows it to be great for DD use or road trips. Always accessible power (torque), automatic shifting, nice NHV isolation, effortless speed-- these are all things that make for a pleasant daily/road trip car, but detract from a sports car experience.

I'm not trying to describe the i8 as a bad car- I think it's great at what it's great at. I'm trying to explain that the reason it gets so much hate is that it's not what it looks like, so it doesn't meet the expectations people have when they see it. It looks like a sports car/almost exotic, but drives like a GT car. It's like if people went in to see Avengers, but were shown gone with the wind. Gone with the wind isn't a bad movie, but if you went in expecting gone with the wind... it's not what you were expecting.

I'm not arguing against the i8. I've been debating getting one for a long time (basically try to decide if it's ownable in the long term, as I don't really like to sell cars). But, if I do, its role in the fleet would be my DD/road trip car-- as that's where it excels.
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      03-23-2021, 03:52 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
Disagree on the 'steering is dead'. It is not. AWD and regen braking impose constraints, but the feel and precision are very good, better than my prior M3 for sure. Ditto for handling. I do have a 2019 version with some minor mods, but the car is quick (0-100kph 3.8) and handles great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I meant any contemporary 911. The 997 came out in 2004. Certainly, yes, the i8 is faster than lots of old 911s. I'm sure it's faster than every 1960s 911, as well :P

Passing cars on tracks is proof of nothing about the car, only driver. I routinely pass GT3s, MacLarens, Corvettes, etc in my e46 M3. It is not anywhere near as fast as any of those cars.



There is more to being a sports car then 0-60 for sure. It's about feedback (i8 steering is dead), engine dynamics (i8 engine dynamics are GT like, not sports car like-- sports cars are peaky), and involvement with the machine (i8 is only available with any automatic trans and all wheel drive, and you don't have a ton of control over how the machine does what it's doing (where it allocates power, etc)).



I COMPLETELY agree the i8 is a better DD. GT cars make great DDs. Sports cars, that are real sports cars (I'd say only the GT 911s still are) are inherently pretty terrible DDs-- and even worse for road trips. The very things that make the i8 not a sports car are exactly what allows it to be great for DD use or road trips. Always accessible power (torque), automatic shifting, nice NHV isolation, effortless speed-- these are all things that make for a pleasant daily/road trip car, but detract from a sports car experience.

I'm not trying to describe the i8 as a bad car- I think it's great at what it's great at. I'm trying to explain that the reason it gets so much hate is that it's not what it looks like, so it doesn't meet the expectations people have when they see it. It looks like a sports car/almost exotic, but drives like a GT car. It's like if people went in to see Avengers, but were shown gone with the wind. Gone with the wind isn't a bad movie, but if you went in expecting gone with the wind... it's not what you were expecting.

I'm not arguing against the i8. I've been debating getting one for a long time (basically try to decide if it's ownable in the long term, as I don't really like to sell cars). But, if I do, its role in the fleet would be my DD/road trip car-- as that's where it excels.
3.8? Tell me more about the tuning.
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