BMW i
Forum for the BMW i3, i4 and i8
BMW i3 BMW i8
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

  BMW i Forums > BMW i8 Forums > BMW i8 General Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-31-2019, 12:24 AM   #45
RichTimpa
New Member
United_States
3
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW X5 35d
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaretto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichTimpa View Post
So I have Carly and would love to see the mood light color change when I move to sport mode automatically

If that possible?
Never used any phone apps, so not sure.
Well is in possible in general. ???
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2019, 01:43 AM   #46
Almaretto
Major General
Almaretto's Avatar
United_States
1741
Rep
7,398
Posts

Drives: Test Vehicles
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mountain View, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichTimpa View Post
Well is in possible in general. ???
There are parameters for it (seen with E-sys), but never tested to see if it works.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2019, 03:30 AM   #47
RichTimpa
New Member
United_States
3
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW X5 35d
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaretto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichTimpa View Post
Well is in possible in general. ???
There are parameters for it (seen with E-sys), but never tested to see if it works.
Would be great to find out and know what to change. 😄
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2019, 07:27 PM   #48
Almaretto
Major General
Almaretto's Avatar
United_States
1741
Rep
7,398
Posts

Drives: Test Vehicles
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mountain View, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichTimpa View Post
Would be great to find out and know what to change. 😄
Check for FDL's that has 'fes' in name or description.
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2019, 04:58 PM   #49
evanevery
Lieutenant Colonel
evanevery's Avatar
856
Rep
1,536
Posts

Drives: i8 Roadster, M4, Tesla MX
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Just because you can change the color CHOICES with coding, doesn't mean you can change the behavior of how the car actually works.

In other words, one is DATA and the other is SOFTWARE. When you "code" a car, all you are actually changing is identified storage locations (data) which the car's software reads in order to determine how it should behave.

If the car's software is not already designed to change the mood lighting according to its operating mode (eco, comfort, sport), you can't ADD that logic via "coding" the car.

You can change the data (parameters) used by the car's software by "coding", but you can't change the software itself.
__________________
The Jiggery-Pokery is Strong with this One

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...ht=fire+orange
Appreciate 0
      02-02-2019, 12:29 AM   #50
Almaretto
Major General
Almaretto's Avatar
United_States
1741
Rep
7,398
Posts

Drives: Test Vehicles
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mountain View, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Just because you can change the color CHOICES with coding, doesn't mean you can change the behavior of how the car actually works.

In other words, one is DATA and the other is SOFTWARE. When you "code" a car, all you are actually changing is identified storage locations (data) which the car's software reads in order to determine how it should behave.

If the car's software is not already designed to change the mood lighting according to its operating mode (eco, comfort, sport), you can't ADD that logic via "coding" the car.

You can change the data (parameters) used by the car's software by "coding", but you can't change the software itself.
I do not follow. By changing setting, you are modifying behavior.

Just because it is not behave a certain way from factory, does not mean it cannot be coded to as there are development options in software.
Appreciate 0
      02-05-2019, 10:48 AM   #51
evanevery
Lieutenant Colonel
evanevery's Avatar
856
Rep
1,536
Posts

Drives: i8 Roadster, M4, Tesla MX
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Its the fundamental difference between CODE and DATA.

We can change the DATA (by the process we unfortunately choose to call "coding"), but we can NOT change the CODE (software/firmware).

Additionally, we can only change the DATA (parameters) for which the software engineers have made allowances. If they have not made a data field available to allow manipulation, we can not change that either.

Just because the DATA is accessible to make changes to the colors (RGB values), this has NOTHING to do with whether or not the software engineers have embedded the necessary logic (software) to manipulate those choices based on the car configuration (eco, comfort, sport).

DATA is variables/parameters/values. CODE is software/firmware/logic. These are fundamentally different...
__________________
The Jiggery-Pokery is Strong with this One

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...ht=fire+orange
Appreciate 1
fbuzila200.50

      02-05-2019, 01:34 PM   #52
fbuzila
Lieutenant
United_States
201
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: 2015 i8 | 2016 X5 35i
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL

iTrader: (1)

Send a message via Yahoo to fbuzila Send a message via Skype™ to fbuzila
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Its the fundamental difference between CODE and DATA.

We can change the DATA (by the process we unfortunately choose to call "coding"), but we can NOT change the CODE (software/firmware).

Additionally, we can only change the DATA (parameters) for which the software engineers have made allowances. If they have not made a data field available to allow manipulation, we can not change that either.

Just because the DATA is accessible to make changes to the colors (RGB values), this has NOTHING to do with whether or not the software engineers have embedded the necessary logic (software) to manipulate those choices based on the car configuration (eco, comfort, sport).

DATA is variables/parameters/values. CODE is software/firmware/logic. These are fundamentally different...
As a software engineer guy I find this explanation awesome and clear.
I always had issues explaining this stuff...
Appreciate 1
evanevery855.50

      02-06-2019, 01:25 AM   #53
Almaretto
Major General
Almaretto's Avatar
United_States
1741
Rep
7,398
Posts

Drives: Test Vehicles
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mountain View, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
Its the fundamental difference between CODE and DATA.

We can change the DATA (by the process we unfortunately choose to call "coding"), but we can NOT change the CODE (software/firmware).

Additionally, we can only change the DATA (parameters) for which the software engineers have made allowances. If they have not made a data field available to allow manipulation, we can not change that either.

Just because the DATA is accessible to make changes to the colors (RGB values), this has NOTHING to do with whether or not the software engineers have embedded the necessary logic (software) to manipulate those choices based on the car configuration (eco, comfort, sport).

DATA is variables/parameters/values. CODE is software/firmware/logic. These are fundamentally different...
I understand the "coding" can be misnomer, but ability to change depends on individual skill set.

And, the way you phrased makes it sound like request is not possible.
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2019, 03:31 PM   #54
evanevery
Lieutenant Colonel
evanevery's Avatar
856
Rep
1,536
Posts

Drives: i8 Roadster, M4, Tesla MX
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaretto View Post
I understand the "coding" can be misnomer, but ability to change depends on individual skill set.

And, the way you phrased makes it sound like request is not possible.
No, you're not listening.

The ability to change the behavior of the SOFTWARE has nothing to do with the coders "skill set". The coder's "skill set" is typically gauged by how many of the DATA storage locations they know about and how well they understand the associated PREDETERMINED functionality.

The "coder" can only change DATA which the BMW software engineers have made available to be changed. The coder can NOT change the SOFTWARE or FIRMWARE regardless of their coding skill set. They can not change the logic. They can only change the data which the logic reads. If the desired logic is not already in place, they can not alter, modify, or augment it.

---

Lets suppose you have a keyboard and a little box for text entry in your speedo. You type 35 and the car goes 35. You type 55 and the car goes 55. The software would be designed to read the DATA you typed in and set the speed accordingly. You might WANT to add the functionality of the SOFTWARE to automatically roll up the windows if you enter a DATA value of 55 or higher, but if the SOFTWARE doesn't already have this logic you can't just "code it in". All you can do is change the DATA (not the logic).

---

So, no, I DON'T expect this request is possible. Not unless this logic has already been coded into the software and simply hasn't been exposed yet...
__________________
The Jiggery-Pokery is Strong with this One

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...ht=fire+orange
Appreciate 0
      02-06-2019, 11:05 PM   #55
Almaretto
Major General
Almaretto's Avatar
United_States
1741
Rep
7,398
Posts

Drives: Test Vehicles
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mountain View, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
No, you're not listening.

--

So, no, I DON'T expect this request is possible. Not unless this logic has already been coded into the software and simply hasn't been exposed yet...
Then, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I "guess" all aftermarket tunes are BMW engineer designed.

Saying not possible and not expecting to be possible are two different things.
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2019, 10:04 AM   #56
evanevery
Lieutenant Colonel
evanevery's Avatar
856
Rep
1,536
Posts

Drives: i8 Roadster, M4, Tesla MX
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

I've been coding BMW's for over 6 years now...and I'm a professional software developer in RL. But, I guess you know better than me!

And now, you are confusing "tuning" with "coding". "Tuning" is a completely different process then "coding".

"Coding" is actually a pretty trivial activity which is easily accomplished using standardized tools (E-Sys). "Tuning" is a basically a deep exercise in extracting code, symbolically disassembling that code, reverse engineering its functionality, modifying that functionality, and then reinstalling the modified code into the same binary footprint as the original without BREAKING anything while obtaining the desired modification to its functionality. This is why it often takes YEARS of work to crack new ECU's and very few shops have the capabilities to do this. Its a VERY expensive process so the business model needs to charge a premium even just to break even. This is why custom tunes and software can cost over a $1000 a pop. There also has to be the DEMAND to support the PROFIT or no one is going to do this. I'm unaware of any custom firmware developed for anything other than BMW ECU's for engine and traction control. Folks have been tuning various BMW ECU's for quite some time so there is a fairly well established ecosystem (and high demand) to crack new ECU's as they are released. How much are you personally willing to spend to have someone crack the body and/or nav module firmware just so you can do one pretty meaningless thing in one very isolated model car which has very limited sales distribution?

Please let us know how it turns out!
__________________
The Jiggery-Pokery is Strong with this One

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...ht=fire+orange

Last edited by evanevery; 02-07-2019 at 10:36 AM.
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2019, 02:57 AM   #57
RichTimpa
New Member
United_States
3
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW X5 35d
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
I've been coding BMW's for over 6 years now...and I'm a professional software developer in RL. But, I guess you know better than me!

And now, you are confusing "tuning" with "coding". "Tuning" is a completely different process then "coding".

"Coding" is actually a pretty trivial activity which is easily accomplished using standardized tools (E-Sys). "Tuning" is a basically a deep exercise in extracting code, symbolically disassembling that code, reverse engineering its functionality, modifying that functionality, and then reinstalling the modified code into the same binary footprint as the original without BREAKING anything while obtaining the desired modification to its functionality. This is why it often takes YEARS of work to crack new ECU's and very few shops have the capabilities to do this. Its a VERY expensive process so the business model needs to charge a premium even just to break even. This is why custom tunes and software can cost over a $1000 a pop. There also has to be the DEMAND to support the PROFIT or no one is going to do this. I'm unaware of any custom firmware developed for anything other than BMW ECU's for engine and traction control. Folks have been tuning various BMW ECU's for quite some time so there is a fairly well established ecosystem (and high demand) to crack new ECU's as they are released. How much are you personally willing to spend to have someone crack the body and/or nav module firmware just so you can do one pretty meaningless thing in one very isolated model car which has very limited sales distribution?

Please let us know how it turns out!
Evan

You articulate this very well and clearly understand the coding concept and how coding works regarding feature activation.

Ameratto

You seem to disagree at every point even when Evan has done a wonderful job explaining. Instead of saying how anything can be done why don't you share will all of us, including Evan , just one example of getting the car to do something not avail in coding.

Time to step up and show us what ya got. Either that or disagree in silence until you can show us all
Appreciate 1
evanevery855.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:34 PM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST