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      10-06-2016, 04:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Carac View Post
BMWNA guys were going around telling dealers that they should only expect 1-2 cars per year in the months leading up to launch. It's why, when I sat down with the manager of the dealership, they asked me to sign a document ensuring they got the right of first offer when I decided to sell the car (which they wouldn't have done if they knew they'd be getting 1-2 cars a month). The expectation among dealers then was that BMW might make 350-700 cars a year, because that is what they had been told.

They were told that so often and so sincerely that when I returned to the dealership with the car after 6 months and 5k miles, they didn't hesitate to buy it back, close to what I paid for it (MSRP minus taxes). I lucked out. I called them up the second I saw the news that i8 production was more than doubling, then I sold it...probably before that news had even reached the dealership, because at the time of selling it, they still thought they were only going to get one more in the next 12 months. A couple of months later they were sitting on 5 cars...so many they were just sitting on the lot next to the 1 series coupes. They got burned so badly by buying back my car, thinking they weren't getting more than 1-2 a year, that the guy I dealt with stopped responding to my inquiries about the M2, they won't even return my calls...all because I was quick enough to get them to buy it back before the bottom dropped out of the market.

BMW PR guys at trade shows were also talking up its exclusivity...so yes, there was an expectation generated mostly by PR hype at BMWNA and a drip feed of almost no i8 info for months to dealers.
There's a difference between exclusivity and limited production. Airline lounges are "exclusive", yet they are at every airport and most of them suck. I'm sure your mailbox fills on a daily basis with "exclusive" flyers. They're not limited by any means (except in actual value).

If the dealers spun this into a story to sucker people into paying extra, it's not BMW's fault. In fact, that's what dealers do, and people should know that. Some may even be okay with paying significantly over list price, if they get to be the first and only ones in town for a while. Good for them. Everybody is responsible for their own decisions and should have more character than blaming others. I personally have never seen misleading info from BMW, so I don't understand the gripe.
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      10-06-2016, 04:22 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by jcpca356 View Post
At this rate of sales, it won't be profitable to keep making the car I think.....which will be good for the rest of us?
The car has been a loss-maker from the beginning. This is about making a statement to the world more than it is about making money. BMW is investing in establishing the "i" sub-brand. It's their take on the future of mobility. And - at least to some degree - it's working. Many people I speak to about alternative car concepts see BMW as the leader among the traditional manufacturers. Ahead of Toyota, because BMW has taken the idea to a new level and a different breed of cars, rather than making ugly, weak-chested eco boxes.

It's also an investment in technology - the manufacturing infrastructure and know-how (e.g. "Life-Drive Architecture") - can be re-used for future BMWi cars.
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      10-06-2016, 05:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Aye-eight View Post
The car has been a loss-maker from the beginning. This is about making a statement to the world more than it is about making money. BMW is investing in establishing the "i" sub-brand. It's their take on the future of mobility. And - at least to some degree - it's working. Many people I speak to about alternative car concepts see BMW as the leader among the traditional manufacturers. Ahead of Toyota, because BMW has taken the idea to a new level and a different breed of cars, rather than making ugly, weak-chested eco boxes.

It's also an investment in technology - the manufacturing infrastructure and know-how (e.g. "Life-Drive Architecture") - can be re-used for future BMWi cars.
Why are they trying so hard to flog cars at discounts now if it's loss making?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

They built (tens of) thousands, point been made. So why loosing more money?
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      10-06-2016, 08:46 PM   #26
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Does anyone know the yearly sales goal? That would give one a feeling if sales expectations were met.

From a branding standpoint it seems to be a hit as most people seem to consider it an exotic car based on its looks alone.
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      10-07-2016, 12:41 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by ericsi View Post
Why are they trying so hard to flog cars at discounts now if it's loss making?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

They built (tens of) thousands, point been made. So why loosing more money?
Contribution to fixed cost coverage, for instance. Better to sell something than to let factory capacity sit idle.

There's a million other reasons. You don't just stop something that you say is a glimpse of the future. That would kill your message right there. Amazon didn't make money for years when they first started out ... This is a conscious investment and kudos to BMW that they stick with it.

Last edited by Aye-eight; 10-07-2016 at 01:52 AM..
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      10-07-2016, 02:43 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Aye-eight View Post
The car has been a loss-maker from the beginning.
In Leipzig last month at the BMW factory, BMW were explicit in stating that it is not losing money and that if it was not profitable, the production would have been shut down.
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      10-07-2016, 06:23 AM   #29
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All this talk and worry of sales, come on guys. It's a car. If you are worried about depreciation, lease it. But it's a great car. My dad had a corvette Z06 when I was in high school. If someone would have told me 10 year ago that I'd own a car that was as quick as that, from one of my favorite brands, that's a hybrid, with freaking butterfly doors I would have kissed them lol.

Let's just enjoy it gents (or ladies) the future is bright.
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      10-07-2016, 10:16 AM   #30
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I think BMW needed to sell i8's because they need to bring the MPG for the BMW Fleet to meet the CAFE Regulations. Now that BMW is selling the X5 and 7-Series as a Hybrid we should see a decrease in the i8 production. I think the I8 was nothing more than a RD Project to introduce the Hybrid technology to their normal cars in-order to meet future CAFE Regulations.
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      10-07-2016, 11:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishpond View Post
In Leipzig last month at the BMW factory, BMW were explicit in stating that it is not losing money and that if it was not profitable, the production would have been shut down.
BMW's comments pertaining to profitability is based on a financial projection over time.

I think Aye-eight's reference to the i8, being currently a loss leader, pertains to the fact that i Division is still in the early stages towards reaching its economy of scale with respect to production/operating costs. Combine this with the initial capital costs (R&D, new plant and equipment, to name a few), profitability will eventually occur over time based on BMW's proforma or financial projection. But not at this current stage in time.

On another note, how BMW chose to reach economy of scales and profitability sooner by ramping up the number of i8s produced may not have been a wise choice. However, like any seasoned business operator, they will eventually find the equilibrium between demand, supply and profit margins.
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      10-10-2016, 05:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsi View Post
Why are they trying so hard to flog cars at discounts now if it's loss making?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

They built (tens of) thousands, point been made. So why loosing more money?
BMW Corporate's profit is different animal from a BMW Dealership's profit.

BMW Corporate might take a loss on the cars, and that's a long term financial decision.

The Dealerships get huge incentives from BMW NA (or AG) to move the cars. I'd wager that all the cars that moved last December went out the door because of massive incentives from Corporate to the Dealers.

That said, selling cars isn't where Dealer make their profits. Parts and Service is where the reliable profits are.
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      10-13-2016, 01:33 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by F5506m View Post
I think BMW needed to sell i8's because they need to bring the MPG for the BMW Fleet to meet the CAFE Regulations. Now that BMW is selling the X5 and 7-Series as a Hybrid we should see a decrease in the i8 production. I think the I8 was nothing more than a RD Project to introduce the Hybrid technology to their normal cars in-order to meet future CAFE Regulations.
While they may have needed an answer to CAFE (and the European equivalent), the above is not really the case. BTW, they also have Mini to help them out with that issue.

BMW has a whole strategy to respond to the changes in the mobility space. This covers propulsion technology, materials, changing ownership models (car sharing), integrated urban mobility, etc. BMWi was launched explicitly to build up that new mobility platform, and it's still in its infant stage. They did not do all this just to fill a gap until they can make their old-school cars CAFE-compliant. As sad as it may be, what we will see going down is the production of big-displacement combustion engines.

That's what the i8 is: practical proof that fast / fun / luxury cars can have much smaller engines. The general market needs to be prepared for that idea, and we are the early adopters.
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      10-13-2016, 09:17 AM   #34
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i hope they stop making it
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      12-01-2016, 11:47 AM   #35
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Chart updated, November 2016 US numbers
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      12-01-2016, 03:23 PM   #36
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So, fairly consistent, looks like about 170-180 units a month on average. The spike in December last year clearly caught up with them in the first months of this year. Curious, if we will see the same pattern again.

At 5 to 6 cars sold per day, and 20 being produced per day, this means 25-30% of production is going to the US. That seems like a lot. Does anybody know that ratios for BMW's other models?
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      12-01-2016, 03:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aye-eight View Post
So, fairly consistent, looks like about 170-180 units a month on average. The spike in December last year clearly caught up with them in the first months of this year. Curious, if we will see the same pattern again.

At 5 to 6 cars sold per day, and 20 being produced per day, this means 25-30% of production is going to the US. That seems like a lot. Does anybody know that ratios for BMW's other models?
They only produce between 5-7 i8s per day.
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      12-01-2016, 05:48 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by jcpca356 View Post
i hope they stop making it
+1
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      12-02-2016, 02:25 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by fishpond View Post
They only produce between 5-7 i8s per day.
That may have been the case in the beginning, and would be impossible now. Because it would mean that 100% of production goes to the US.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/28/b...o-meet-demand/
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      12-03-2016, 01:50 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aye-eight View Post
That may have been the case in the beginning, and would be impossible now. Because it would mean that 100% of production goes to the US.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/28/b...o-meet-demand/

I am just quoting the factory production manager in Leipzig who confirmed that they produce 100 i3s and 5-7 i8s per day. This was a couple of months back in September.

Having had the factory tour, the i8 production line is only a fraction of the size of the i3 production line and is very manual (unlike the i3's process), so it is difficult to so see how they could produce more than 7/8 per day.
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      12-08-2016, 12:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carac View Post
BMWNA guys were going around telling dealers that they should only expect 1-2 cars per year in the months leading up to launch. It's why, when I sat down with the manager of the dealership, they asked me to sign a document ensuring they got the right of first offer when I decided to sell the car (which they wouldn't have done if they knew they'd be getting 1-2 cars a month). The expectation among dealers then was that BMW might make 350-700 cars a year, because that is what they had been told.

They were told that so often and so sincerely that when I returned to the dealership with the car after 6 months and 5k miles, they didn't hesitate to buy it back, close to what I paid for it (MSRP minus taxes). I lucked out. I called them up the second I saw the news that i8 production was more than doubling, then I sold it...probably before that news had even reached the dealership, because at the time of selling it, they still thought they were only going to get one more in the next 12 months. A couple of months later they were sitting on 5 cars...so many they were just sitting on the lot next to the 1 series coupes. They got burned so badly by buying back my car, thinking they weren't getting more than 1-2 a year, that the guy I dealt with stopped responding to my inquiries about the M2, they won't even return my calls...all because I was quick enough to get them to buy it back before the bottom dropped out of the market.

BMW PR guys at trade shows were also talking up its exclusivity...so yes, there was an expectation generated mostly by PR hype at BMWNA and a drip feed of almost no i8 info for months to dealers.
Cool story bro
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      12-08-2016, 12:04 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Louv View Post
BMW never said this was a limited production car. If you paid more than list, that was your informed choice.

I think you want it as a limited production car because that benefits you, but that doesn't benefit BMW. They spent a huge amount of money on the technologies to build this (and the i3). Their accountants surely want them to recover those costs by selling more cars.

Either you enjoy the car, or you don't. If you bought it as "an investment" then you probably messed up. If you bought it because you love the technology, the design, the experience, then you probably succeeded.

Don't worry, BMW doesn't actually care if you return as a customer. Nor do they care about me. It's not personal. It's business.
Wow. That is just plain negative and dark thinking. Of course they care if you return and continue buying. They miscalculated the demand on such a car and assumed the regulatory environment and social responsibility trends would sell them and they did not.

The car is an egineering masterpiece and a brave act of visionary thinking that assumed great risk but ultimately did not yield the numbers BMW might have expected.

They should have really gambled on the SUV and Executive segment to generate a proper return on investment.
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      12-08-2016, 01:02 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf View Post
December of 2015 was wow! Whatever they did then they should do it again.
you could lease an i8 for 1200 a month with nothing down
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      12-08-2016, 02:50 PM   #44
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December of 2015 was wow! Whatever they did then they should do it again.
Investment bankers bonus cheques hit every December. The i8 is a definite Wall Streeter's toy . . .
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