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      01-17-2022, 09:55 PM   #463
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Always enjoy a carwow review. Matt manages to cover all the pertinent points in a succinct way, although more range info would have been good (maybe limited time with the BMW test car?).

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      01-17-2022, 11:48 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Always enjoy a carwow review. Matt manages to cover all the pertinent points in a succinct way, although more range info would have been good (maybe limited time with the BMW test car?).

I was so excited to see this till I realized they were doing launch control in the rain. Disaster for the i4 with substantially more torque, more HP and more weight! Almost seemed as though he was saying the i4 throttle was brutal and harsh and the Tesla more civilized in contrast to the other reviews. The power hatchback configuration trumps the Tesla in utility to me. Rear seats are perfect for my small kids. I want to see some side by side qtr mile runs, in the dry with high SOC between the same 2 cars. And a good performance metric highlighting the BMWs power advantage is in comparing their 60-130mph times, no contest.

Last edited by hotrod182; 01-18-2022 at 04:08 AM..
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      01-18-2022, 05:16 AM   #465
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Also, BMWs voice command is dead simple...." hey BMW turn drivers side temp to 25*" Matt can't seem to get that nailed in any of his BMW videos lol

If it's truly that explosive in LC mode, bring it on! DR's + explosive launch, maybe it can land a 1.6 60ft? Who knows, but it bodes will for high surface grip launches.

I'm more interested in how the i4 will compare to other ICE-to-BEV competition that will be around the horizon (luxury compact sports sedan class), the usual suspects from Audi, MB, and Genesis.

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      01-18-2022, 02:20 PM   #466
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Can't wait to run my dragy/vbox side by side. Its crazy how varied the results are. I just watched one video where they claim a 12.1 sec qtr mile spec on the i4 M50. I just want it to run a 11.5 or quicker at over 120mph. Being as quick 0-60 as the M3P will be a major blow on the Tesla forums. I already have friends that want to run me in their M3Ps.

8.67 100-200kph time thus far Thought this would make you happy, basically a sub 10 second 60-130mph time, and likely a 9.3-9.5 second time in that area...

My comment on another thread:

"In watching the video and knowing some built in latency of when the results appear, it looks to be 200-204kph in traps

In other words 124.27 - 126.76 mph. "

He didn't show traps but if you time it a split second before the time appears, it's right around the 200kPh mark for traps (as indicated on the dragy and not speedometer which is apparently 6kph or 4mph off, dissappointingly...)

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      01-18-2022, 03:50 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
8.67 100-200kph time thus far Thought this would make you happy, basically a sub 10 second 60-130mph time, and likely a 9.3-9.5 second time in that area...

My comment on another thread:

"In watching the video and knowing some built in latency of when the results appear, it looks to be 200-204kph in traps

In other words 124.27 - 126.76 mph. "

He didn't show traps but if you time it a split second before the time appears, it's right around the 200kPh mark for traps (as indicated on the dragy and not speedometer which is apparently 6kph or 4mph off, dissappointingly...)

8.67 seconds for the i4 M50.
Where would the Model 3 Performance stand??
Well how convenient, he tested that too.
It about 69 vehicle test results down on the list from the BMW with a 10.12 seconds run, and then another one at an even slower 11.30 seconds.

https://autotopnl100-200.com/100-200/

About a 1.45 second difference.
If the i4 M50 was 1.45 seconds quicker, it would be in the $130K E-tron GT territory.
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Last edited by hotrod182; 01-18-2022 at 04:01 PM..
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      01-18-2022, 03:54 PM   #468
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Yep, crazy! That's like the difference between a Taycan 4s and a Taycan Turbo from a 62mph roll...

and that is comparing the only i4 m50 time to the quicker M3P time from him. On Dragy, the quickest one appears to be 10.09, so not too far off from that AutoTopNL run
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      01-18-2022, 04:05 PM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
Yep, crazy! That's like the difference between a Taycan 4s and a Taycan Turbo from a 62mph roll...

and that is comparing the only i4 m50 time to the quicker M3P time from him. On Dragy, the quickest one appears to be 10.09, so not too far off from that AutoTopNL run
Yes, we should always use the 60-130mph and 100-200km/h times as a great comparison standard, as it is a very popular one which shows real world roll-on acceleration capabilities. In this case, the current Model 3 will never beat the i4 M50. With 1000lb weight handicap, it should walk the BMW, but that is BMW being conservative compared to Tesla. Furthermore, its is debatable whether the Tesla is even that much quicker 0-60mph on dry pavement. I already know I am going to have so much fun driving this car!
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      01-18-2022, 04:19 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod182 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
Yep, crazy! That's like the difference between a Taycan 4s and a Taycan Turbo from a 62mph roll...

and that is comparing the only i4 m50 time to the quicker M3P time from him. On Dragy, the quickest one appears to be 10.09, so not too far off from that AutoTopNL run
Yes, we should always use the 60-130mph and 100-200km/h times as a great comparison standard, as it is a very popular one which shows real world roll-on acceleration capabilities. In this case, the current Model 3 will never beat the i4 M50. With 1000lb weight handicap, it should walk the BMW, but that is BMW being conservative compared to Tesla. Furthermore, its is debatable whether the Tesla is even that much quicker 0-60mph on dry pavement. I already know I am going to have so much fun driving this car!
Me too.

It's going to be a lot of fun.
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      01-18-2022, 06:50 PM   #471
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Not only that, gets rid of any variables like available surface grip, tire grip, etc etc and shows true available power over time.

I too will be having lots of fun from day 1. If my range isn't 150 miles, then I'm driving it wrong 😆
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      01-18-2022, 08:20 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
Yep, crazy! That's like the difference between a Taycan 4s and a Taycan Turbo from a 62mph roll...

and that is comparing the only i4 m50 time to the quicker M3P time from him. On Dragy, the quickest one appears to be 10.09, so not too far off from that AutoTopNL run
It now makes sense why the Tesla evangelist on this subforum keeps belittling any discussion of 60mph-120mph.
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      01-18-2022, 10:06 PM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
Yep, crazy! That's like the difference between a Taycan 4s and a Taycan Turbo from a 62mph roll...

and that is comparing the only i4 m50 time to the quicker M3P time from him. On Dragy, the quickest one appears to be 10.09, so not too far off from that AutoTopNL run
It now makes sense why the Tesla evangelist on this subforum keeps belittling any discussion of 60mph-120mph.
The Tesla evangelical on this forum denounce anything positive about the i4.
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      01-19-2022, 04:00 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
It now makes sense why the Tesla evangelist on this subforum keeps belittling any discussion of 60mph-120mph.
Yup: 100km/hr-200km/hr is same as 62-124mph approx..
Definitely not the strong suit of the Tesla. Yet for years, this is the metric people would use to judge to acceleration potential of a car by taking the traction limitation out of the equation.

One other thing to realize about the throttle delay is that BMW is probably trying to save motor mounts and other reliability issues. Remember, instant power to the motors takes less programming complexity than dialing up a programmed power ramp up to the motors. Also wondering if engaging the DSC off button helps. Either way, this instant jump of the Tesla is kind of like a cheap shot. BMW is likely limiting the throttle instant power burst intentionally, whereas the Tesla simply doesn't have the HP to keep up with the BMW in the 100-200km/hr metric, and barring some software update, most likely that is not intentional on Tesla's part. This is probably why the Dual motor long range with the software update pretty much runs with the M3P in the upper end. The M3P main advantage is from launch to about 30mph.

Too bad about the throttle response complaints. Hopefully there will be software updates or possible coding to help improve the response. I mean my i3s only on sport mode has a fairly instantaneous throttle response. Even at 40mph it jerks the car. On the other hand my rear tires only lasted 6000 miles, and they run almost $400 each installed. Can't wait to get back to normal sized tires on the i4 M50.
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Last edited by hotrod182; 01-19-2022 at 07:08 PM..
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      01-19-2022, 05:22 PM   #475
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Personally the fact that pretty much all videos have highlighted wheels pin when using LC, tells me there is additional potential.
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      01-21-2022, 03:05 PM   #476
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Quite a detailed review of the M50 here:

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      01-21-2022, 05:27 PM   #477
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The 1st thing I noticed about the video, the wheel gap isn't bad on the M50 in comparison...


Also, the i4 M50 is an M-performance car (and is according to BMWs marketing) while a Tesla Model 3 Performance was designed to be an F80 M3 competitor. The result shouldn't be surprising?

Next up, i4 M50 vs Rimac....

Last edited by spool twice; 01-21-2022 at 05:53 PM..
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      01-22-2022, 04:21 AM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
The 1st thing I noticed about the video, the wheel gap isn't bad on the M50 in comparison...


Also, the i4 M50 is an M-performance car (and is according to BMWs marketing) while a Tesla Model 3 Performance was designed to be an F80 M3 competitor. The result shouldn't be surprising?

Next up, i4 M50 vs Rimac....
I don't get your point. The Model 3 is cheaper, is a dedicated EV with superior EV economy (range, wh/mile), is compromised as a sporty car with a heavy all glass roof.
On top of that, the model 3, arguably, is more comfortable in a 4 adult capacity or (5 smaller persons). More practical and well equipped in standard guise.
In other words, Tesla hasn't made any compromises that we can see to maximise performance. It just happens to be a very capable performance car from the off.

And is absolutely a direct cross shop competitor to the i4.

I wouldn't bet against a model 3 plaid release at some time in the near future. That would be the M car Tesla equivalent.
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      01-22-2022, 06:33 AM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
I don't get your point. The Model 3 is cheaper, is a dedicated EV with superior EV economy (range, wh/mile), is compromised as a sporty car with a heavy all glass roof.
On top of that, the model 3, arguably, is more comfortable in a 4 adult capacity or (5 smaller persons). More practical and well equipped in standard guise.
In other words, Tesla hasn't made any compromises that we can see to maximise performance. It just happens to be a very capable performance car from the off.

And is absolutely a direct cross shop competitor to the i4.

I wouldn't bet against a model 3 plaid release at some time in the near future. That would be the M car Tesla equivalent.
Not if you’re looking for a comfortable ride
Not if you’re looking for a quiet ride
Not if you’re looking for excellent build quality
Not if you’re looking for something other than a spartan interior
Not if you’re looking for exterior aesthetics (yes, I know that’s subjective)

My comments are not made as an anti-Tesla guy, I owned a MS for nearly 3 years.

Further, there was an efficiency test done by some entity that I can’t recall, that showed the i4 was very close to the M3 in efficiency. In fact the i4 was nearly on top of that list.
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      01-22-2022, 06:40 AM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
I don't get your point. The Model 3 is cheaper, is a dedicated EV with superior EV economy (range, wh/mile), is compromised as a sporty car with a heavy all glass roof.
On top of that, the model 3, arguably, is more comfortable in a 4 adult capacity or (5 smaller persons). More practical and well equipped in standard guise.
In other words, Tesla hasn't made any compromises that we can see to maximise performance. It just happens to be a very capable performance car from the off.

And is absolutely a direct cross shop competitor to the i4.

I wouldn't bet against a model 3 plaid release at some time in the near future. That would be the M car Tesla equivalent.
My point is, one was developed to compete with an M-car (F80 M3 in this case), the other wasn't from a dynamic standpoint (sharper, more responsive, more direct steering, stiffer suspension/bushings).

It's like comparing an M440i to an M4 and being surprised that the M440i isn't as sharp of a tool to use

I am surprised to see that this wasn't the first case that someone mentioned the i40 M50's steering having some "torque steer-like" qualities when the front tires spin too much. But then again, the lack of traction management with TCS/DCS OFF is also a reason why it can drift to your hearts content and you have to be part of the "experience" and not have to car dial back things. Something I'll have to be careful of when road surface temps drop in Sunny FL winters and having summer tires.
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      01-22-2022, 06:44 AM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken7 View Post
Not if you’re looking for a comfortable ride
Not if you’re looking for a quiet ride
Not if you’re looking for excellent build quality
Not if you’re looking for something other than a spartan interior
Not if you’re looking for exterior aesthetics (yes, I know that’s subjective)

My comments are not made as an anti-Tesla guy, I owned a MS for nearly 3 years.

Further, there was an efficiency test done by some entity that I can’t recall, that showed the i4 was very close to the M3 in efficiency. In fact the i4 was nearly on top of that list.
You bring up a good point about the build quality.

This review had me wonder why Tesla switched from the interior door cards from soft-touch to hard-touch plastics in the lower regions when most of its competitors are soft touch (BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc etc)

Sofyan also has had years of TM3P experience from ownership. He does mention that his never got more than 250miles of range, and the owner who he borred this particular car for review said something similar:

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      01-22-2022, 08:36 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Quite a detailed review of the M50 here:

Why the heck they say “add visibility pack and comfort pack and the price is 70k now”. Cmon! All these give options that Tesla has never had! The most stupid comparison.

Moreover, double glazing on Tesla is piece of shit. It doesn’t compare to my X5’s double glazing. Secondly, what kind of heat isolation is he talking about? It doesn’t really help. You can actually feel in winter time that the window is really cold. It’s not a heat shield, it’s a stupid window that is a little bit better in insulation than a normal one. But there is no a dramatic difference. Novice…
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      01-22-2022, 10:38 AM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electric2021 View Post

Why the heck they say “add visibility pack and comfort pack and the price is 70k now”. Cmon! All these give options that Tesla has never had! The most stupid comparison.

Moreover, double glazing on Tesla is piece of shit. It doesn’t compare to my X5’s double glazing. Secondly, what kind of heat isolation is he talking about? It doesn’t really help. You can actually feel in winter time that the window is really cold. It’s not a heat shield, it’s a stupid window that is a little bit better in insulation than a normal one. But there is no a dramatic difference. Novice…
Agree with the visibility pack, I'm sure you could option high beam assist separately? Laser lights aren't available on Tesla.

Comfort pack however is needed to bring those features to Tesla's level. And as always, very difficult to option two different manufacturers cars to exactly the same standard.
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      01-22-2022, 10:55 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken7 View Post
Not if you're looking for a comfortable ride
Not if you're looking for a quiet ride
Not if you're looking for excellent build quality
Not if you're looking for something other than a spartan interior
Not if you're looking for exterior aesthetics (yes, I know that's subjective)

My comments are not made as an anti-Tesla guy, I owned a MS for nearly 3 years.

Further, there was an efficiency test done by some entity that I can't recall, that showed the i4 was very close to the M3 in efficiency. In fact the i4 was nearly on top of that list.
Isn't that the same when trying to compare any two manufacturers cars in the same segment? There are always pro's and con's to each. The buyer pays his money and takes his choice.

Out of which car will sell the most successfully, it will be landslide model 3 victory. Partly because of the new BMW design language, partly because the G2x is a man's car, partly because BMW shoppers get to choose ICE versions too, partly because the Tesla is the better EV. If you are in the niche segment the i4 appeals to, it is a great car. Although I'd say the e40 is the pick of the range, as just plain model 3 (RWD) or LR is pick of the Tesla range. The performance is very definitely the worst of the range.
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