[Haywood]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

My wife and oldest son say the Polestar looks like it doesn't know what it wants to be. They say the design is confusing. Is it a car or crossover?

They think it fails at both.

I would agree. Not a big fan of the styling. And they went with the same huge iPad looking display like the Tesla. A fail for me.

[icegrill]

Armchair EV experts coming through the woodwork. I have a p*2 as my daily driver with the performance pack. It's not trying to compete or be compared with the obscene design direction bmw is headed in. It has a more tasteful Swedish aesthetic, similar to early Saab 900s and 9000s. I've been enjoying the car very much for the past 5 months and am impressed with its blistering acceleration and powerful brembos. The fit and finish is nearly as good as my f80, while even with the öhlins dampers and awd I feel like handling is not m car caliber as stated in the top gear review. I'm eagerly awaiting the OTA 70 hp and 40 tq bump coming soon.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by icegrill

Armchair EV experts coming through the woodwork. I have a p*2 as my daily driver with the performance pack. It's not trying to compete or be compared with the obscene design direction bmw is headed in. It has a more tasteful Swedish aesthetic, similar to early Saab 900s and 9000s. I've been enjoying the car very much for the past 5 months and am impressed with its blistering acceleration and powerful brembos. The fit and finish is nearly as good as my f80, while even with the öhlins dampers and awd I feel like handling is not m car caliber as stated in the top gear review. I'm eagerly awaiting the OTA 70 hp and 40 tq bump coming soon.

So people can't dislike a product without the unnecessary tag line?!?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Although i4 is undoubtedly a transitional vehicle, it leaves Polestar in the rear view mirror because i4 had been designed to be driven while Polestar is merely a transportation method.

Oh please.

Buy the Polestar Performance and you have an excellent handling vehicle. BMW no longer owns exclusive rights to the Ultimate Driving Machine tag. While I have yet to drive an i4, I've driven a Polestar Performance and it's an excellent handling car. It has other issues, but as a driver's EV, it's a very solid choice.

Misha has enjoyed it. The owner of Apex, his Boss Robert Mitchell who has a fleet of cars including a 620R, 675 LT (two!), 720S, and has had a Pista, felt strongly enough about the car to immediately order one after driving Misha's long term loaner. I don't think he'd order a "transportation method"

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

My wife and oldest son say the Polestar looks like it doesn't know what it wants to be. They say the design is confusing. Is it a car or crossover?

They think it fails at both.

Agreed.

I liked the P2, but three things killed it for me:

1. High rider styling (channeling it's AMC Eagle vibes apparently).
2. Quite tight back seat.
3. Not well laid out driver's area (meaning: confining center console, lack of a second cupholder, lack of storage areas.

Like the i4, it's based off an ICE platform. So it doesn't use it's space well (no frunk, high center tunnel, etc.). But when equipped with the Ohlins shocks and the Brembos, it's a very capable car with good feedback. The Android / Google infotainment still has some issues as well. And for what you get, it's expensive.

But if the size works for you, it's a good choice. And no mere appliance.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So people can't dislike a product without the unnecessary tag line?!?

There is disliking the product, and then there is dismissing it out of hand with (clearly) a lack of any real experience with the car, basing one's assumption on the brand and the styling. I see a lot of the latter, and not much of the former.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

There is disliking the product, and then there is dismissing it out of hand with (clearly) a lack of any real experience with the car, basing one's assumption on the brand and the styling. I see a lot of the latter, and not much of the former.

Well, that's the nature of forums. People constantly "dismiss a car without any experience with it" and "base assumptions on the brand and the styling". Look no further than the threads on this forum and the G8X for plenty of examples of that. Although, I don't know how anybody could assume anything about the styling. It's subjective; you either like it or you don't. You have a vested interest in the brand while the rest of the people commenting do not. The styling is lackluster to me. Your response seems like you're taking the criticism about the car personally.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Well, that's the nature of forums. People constantly "dismiss a car without any experience with it" and "base assumptions on the brand and the styling". Look no further than the threads on this forum and the G8X for plenty of examples of that. Although, I don't know how anybody could assume anything about the styling. It's subjective; you either like it or you don't. You have a vested interest in the brand while the rest of the people commenting do not. The styling is lackluster to me. Your response seems like you're taking the criticism about the car personally.

LOL, I'm not taking it personally, and I have no vested interest in the car whatsoever. Don't own one, don't know anyone who does.

Yeah, that's the unfortunate nature of forums. And I just get annoyed when people make baseless assumptions without having even the slightest bit of experience with the product.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

LOL, I'm not taking it personally, and I have no vested interest in the car whatsoever. Don't own one, don't know anyone who does.

Yeah, that's the unfortunate nature of forums. And I just get annoyed when people make baseless assumptions without having even the slightest bit of experience with the product.

We can't realistically have experience with every car. It's just not feasibly possible.

What baseless assumptions did people make?!?! Again, most of the criticism is about the styling. How can not liking the styling be a baseless assumption?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

W

What baseless assumptions did people make?!?! Again, most of the criticism is about the styling. How can not liking the styling be a baseless assumption?

Didn't say anything about people's criticism of the styling. In fact, i criticized it as well. But styling is subjective. I'm talking about statements like this:

but anyway it's just a Volvo with an electric engine and very expensive MRSP...

Although i4 is undoubtedly a transitional vehicle, it leaves Polestar in the rear view mirror because i4 had been designed to be driven while Polestar is merely a transportation method.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Didn't say anything about people's criticism of the styling. In fact, i criticized it as well. But styling is subjective. I'm talking about statements like this:

You LITERALLY mentioned people making assumptions about the brand and the styling a few posts up.

In any case, I have no skin in the game since neither car is anything I would remotely be interested in. It was just interesting that you came into the thread tossing labels because you didn't like what people were saying about Polestar. It's THAT kind of behavior that ruins forums, not people being critical of automotive products.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You LITERALLY mentioned people making assumptions about the brand and the styling a few posts up.

In any case, I have no skin in the game since neither car is anything I would remotely be interested in. It was just interesting that you came into the thread tossing labels because you didn't like what people were saying about Polestar. It's THAT kind of behavior that ruins forums, not people being critical of automotive products.

I maybe didn't write that clearly enough? What I was trying to convey is that people seem to be making assumptions about the car overall based on their dislike of the styling. The two are not conjoined, as you clearly noted regarding the G80 M3 (which is a car that I dislike styling wise, but I think is a brilliant driving machine based on my limited interaction with it).

To be clear, I dislike the styling of the Polestar as well. It is literally the number one on my list of reasons that I didn't buy one last month as I stated above. What I am trying to combat is actually what you're accusing me of, which I find ironic. We're on the same page here.

[techwhiz1]

My *ONLY* complaint is with the ride height.
Can you drop the ride height with the Ohlin's shocks?

My wife won't go near it and claims it looks too confused.
To that end she had me place on hold a Fisker Ocean. She said with a ride height like the P* it should at least look like a truck or cross over.

I've looked at one at my kid's school. (Another parent) There wasn't anything that was an immediate no.

I liked the fit and finish better than a TM3.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

My *ONLY* complaint is with the ride height.
Can you drop the ride height with the Ohlin's shocks?

My wife won't go near it and claims it looks too confused.
To that end she had me place on hold a Fisker Ocean. She said with a ride height like the P* it should at least look like a truck or cross over.

I've looked at one at my kid's school. (Another parent) There wasn't anything that was an immediate no.

I liked the fit and finish better than a TM3.

No, unfortunately the Ohlins are not height adjustable. And I agree, it's really tall and awkward looking.

[spool twice]

at the end of the day, Volvo peeps will likely select Polstar and BMW peeps will select BMW's because of their characteristics. One isn't really that much better than the other, only on a subjective level in how they "perceive" each brand is what will win sales

Personally, I'd choose a Polstar over any of Volvo's ICE offering's...

The concept isn't any different than a Tesla Model 3 vs i4, we chose the i4 despite a perceived "inferiority" on its specs as an EV car because we wanted something more ICE-like in design etc etc and willing to accept to "compromises" because it fits our needs.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by spool twice

at the end of the day, Volvo peeps will likely select Polstar and BMW peeps will select BMW's because of their characteristics. One isn't really that much better than the other, only on a subjective level in how they "perceive" each brand is what will win sales

Personally, I'd choose a Polstar over any of Volvo's ICE offering's...

The concept isn't any different than a Tesla Model 3 vs i4, we chose the i4 despite a perceived "inferiority" on its specs as an EV car because we wanted something more BEV-like in design etc etc and willing to accept to "compromises" because it fits our needs.

Perceived inferiority? Huh?

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Perceived inferiority? Huh?

things like charge speeds, mile/kWh, "EV" like things

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by spool twice

things like charge speeds, mile/kWh, "EV" like things

I commented in another thread that one gallon of gasoline@8.5lb is around 34kWh of energy vs. 10lb for 1kWh of battery.

Even at 35% ICE efficiency, one gallon of gasoline still has around 11kWh. Given my G20 hits 44+mpg on hwy, it yields around 4 miles/kWh, which is similar to i4/Tesla.

So the charge speed, curb weight(and its effects on handling and tire wear, etc, etc), range, are the EV things that ICE folks need to accept.

[Almaretto]

Originally Posted by 4monks

Completely disagree. I've driven both and the Polestar is a great car to drive. Not quite as quick as the i4, but it doesn't nose up on launch as the i4 does. For me, it loses out on a few other things. No HUD, finish not quite where BMW is but it's better that the Volvo XC40 which I've also driven.

I have been driving PS2's for about two years and looking forward to getting behind the wheel of an i4 for comparison. My work also just picked up mach-e and PS2 drives much better.

I agree, polestar interior falls short; the DIM has great maps integration as well as wish it had a HUD and CSD could use real-estate better. I find the XC60 and XC90 seats/dash/speakers a big step up compared to polestar.

[Almaretto]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Agreed.

I liked the P2, but three things killed it for me:

1. High rider styling (channeling it's AMC Eagle vibes apparently).
2. Quite tight back seat.
3. Not well laid out driver's area (meaning: confining center console, lack of a second cupholder, lack of storage areas.

Interior storage area is lacking, but there are multiple cupholders. Unfortunately, second one is in center console I really wish they would have put volume knob behind shifter rather than between it and screen.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Perceived inferiority? Huh?

The Model 3 is a better EV than the i4. It is not, however, a better overall vehicle.

Range, efficiency, charging network, charge management, power deployment, motor smoothness, etc. Tesla is class leading in this area, no doubt, although it looks like Lucid may have caught them if the numbers we are seeing are consistent. I mean, look at this 70 MPH range test. 4.3 mi/kWh which is 232 Wh/mile! That's INSANE. So efficient.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Almaretto

Interior storage area is lacking, but there are multiple cupholders. Unfortunately, second one is in center console I really wish they would have put volume knob behind shifter rather than between it and screen.

I don't count that second cupholder as real. In order to use it you need to 1. flip the console lid all the way open into the back seat and 2. put the cupholder insert into the center console storage, thus completely taking it all up. Seems about as useful as those round indented rings on the inside of glovebox doors they called cupholders in the early 80's.

As someone who uses both cupholders on the way to work every morning, this actually is kind of a big deal. It's hot here in TX!