[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by BimmerBahn

Then as you say, SAE Level 3+ will never be achieved by them for the reasons you outlined. Gonna be a bunch of P-O’d Tesla owners when FSD never materializes.

Even if he changes his mind very few existing cars will be capable of FSD because all they have is vision.

I can't call FSD anything that requires you to hang on the wheel.

I believe Musk has screwed the pooch on this one.

[LFaist]

Just gotta smile reading all these posts after vinny84's good write up. So many mis-statements being made to argue a point along with hear say. Having owned many 5 and 3 series and now an M2 in the garage along with a model 3LR and model Y, one's neither "better" or "worse" than the others. Just different. Well my GM Bolt did suck due to threat of fire IMHO before trading it for the Y. I love my M for spirited driving and the occasional longer trip. But also having put almost 100k miles on our model 3 LR since summer of '19, we love the teslas for distance driving. It's so easy. BMW and VW will be strong competitors eventually to Tesla. Wondering if the reference early in the thread of 2,000 people surveyed on Tesla vs BMW have actually spent considerable time with both?

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by LFaist

Just gotta smile reading all these posts after vinny84's good write up. So many mis-statements being made to argue a point along with hear say. Having owned many 5 and 3 series and now an M2 in the garage along with a model 3LR and model Y, one's neither "better" or "worse" than the others. Just different. Well my GM Bolt did suck due to threat of fire IMHO before trading it for the Y. I love my M for spirited driving and the occasional longer trip. But also having put almost 100k miles on our model 3 LR since summer of '19, we love the teslas for distance driving. It's so easy. BMW and VW will be strong competitors eventually to Tesla. Wondering if the reference early in the thread of 2,000 people surveyed on Tesla vs BMW have actually spent considerable time with both?

I have. Although I agree tesla is "easy" as you say and super practical, I prefer bmw by a large margin.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by M3macster

I have. Although I agree tesla is "easy" as you say and super practical, I prefer bmw by a large margin.

Correct, the Camry and Accord owners love Tesla as being easy and practical, but they also ignore the steep price premium for the Tesla experience over super affordable and easy Camry and Accord.

[e30nicole]

Originally Posted by vinny84

Not that anyone might care what a former Tesla owner might think, I still thought it would be nice to share my experience with the i4 M50 and how I think BMW has fared when comparing this to a Model 3

Finally had the opportunity to test drive one last night at my BMW dealer event. I have been eyeing this model for quite some time and I was curious to find out what BMWs answer might be to EVs and ultimately Tesla

First Look

- I have to admit, I think the front is really nice. I hate the grills on the M3/M4 and 4 Series but for some reason it works here.

- I like the rear maybe a bit more but I'm not sure why BMW decided to leave half the rear bumper in high gloss black trim. For that, I think this car looks best in black. I love the blue but that rear bumper bothers me with the black trim for some reason. If only the bottom rear was in high gloss black, I think the blue would be the color of my choice

Interior

- The interior is really nice and clean. I don't mind the buttons on the center console. I think BMW did a really nice job here. Everything is easy to use and access for the most part. I actually do wish it had physical buttons for the heated seats but I was told those can be set to come on automatically after an outside temp has been set.

- The curved display is awesome and really nice. Everything is easy to read and navigate. The steering wheel also doesn't intrude with the center console. The Porsche Taycan does slightly.

- The seats are very very comfortable. Comfort is worlds above the Model 3. I would like to have ventilated seats but I don't think it's worth upgrading to leather. The SensaTec interior is perfect in my mind.

- The rear seat area isn't that big. Tall people might have some issues in the back seat if going on long trips. For me and my fiance it's a non issue. The nod goes to the Model 3 for rear seating.

- Finally, HUD is an option. I really wish the Model 3 had this option.

Driving and Performance

- This is where the i4 M50 really shines. Performance feels similar to my Model 3 but I I feel it is definitely faster. In Sport Boost, the car really puts you back in your seat in the most fiercest way. Excellent I also enjoy the IonicSounds, I think it gives it character and emotion when driving it.

- Suspension feels really good. The adaptive suspension definitely helps here and ride quality is just about perfect. Sporty when you want it and comfortable enough for long trips. The Model 3 suspension is quite harsh compared to this i4. Also, even though the i4 is quite a heavy car, you wouldn't know it when having fun on the back roads with spirited driving

Battery

- I think the battery technology blows away the Tesla here. The i4 gives you real world range and doesn't have much, if any parasitic loss when driving. For example, I left the dealership at 99% battery and 242 miles of range. After about a 15 mile test drive mixed with sporty back road driving, flooring the accelerator most of the time and some highway cruising with some high speed bursts, we came back with 93% battery and 230 miles of range. My Tesla would of lost way more than that and that was my biggest gripe with it.

- Regenerative braking really works. I used to be able to do one pedal driving in the Tesla and I can do it here just as well but the i4 seems to charge the battery up a lot better when you have the regen braking on

Overall

In summary, BMW has hit it out of the park and into the next block here. They have successfully created probably the perfect EV to be able to compete with Tesla and other competition in this price point. I can see myself owning one in the near future

Thanks for taking the time to read my quick review

Great Review. I have to agree with the battery being great as well as the regen braking. I had to drive the i4 M50i from LI to NYC which is about a 40-50 mile journey plus traffic. I drove the car around an EV test track which was about about a mile long about 30 times testing acceleration and handling. Then drove around the city about another 20 miles before heading home (50 miles). I then drove it back to the dealership the next day about another 10 miles. I did all of that driving in two days and arrived back to the dealership with 140 miles left on the car, and I did no charging. I was highly impressed for driving it that much and still having a good amount of battery left. The total miles for the two days was about 160 miles and about 140 miles left at return.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Ones just trying to figure out what the comparison was.
I configured a M50 and 440iX GC and loaded each one and got a $10k difference.

Take out the $7500 tax credit and it falls to $2500. Factor in that there are some benefits to the M50 since you literally have no maintenance. Also the M50 has substantially more power and performance.

I chose the M50 over an M3.

As my location says "Sweden", I'm talking euro models and prices.
Base 3-series is a 318d. Starts at about $37k
But ok, comparing with a 4GC (420i), the difference is ~$15k.
Base i4 is by the way the eDrive40 over here.
Tax credit is US specific.

So now you know how I got those numbers.

[footie]

Originally Posted by matbl

Having owned a Tesla Model S, drive a Model 3 and driven an i4 I agree with the top post.
Over here (Sweden), a base i4 is actual some $6-7k cheaper than a M3 LR and only slightly more expensive than a M3 SR.
For the same price I would take the i4 over the M3 any day.

Then the next couple of years we will see electric 5-series as well as small SUV's from BMW (iX1 just announced right) so catching up quickly.

The only thing BMW needs to fix now are two things.
1.
Charging network equal to Teslas.
Current BMW charging with ionity access (in europe) goes a long way but what's up with the monthly charge even if you don't use it?
(After 1 year free).
2.
Price.
For what's essentially a 3-series, base i4 is $26k more than a base 3-series.

The problem is that the i4 even in base model isn't the equivalent to a basic 3 series or 4GC because it's performance is so much more. To get the same levels of performance from a 4GC you need to the 430i and if you want an M/Sport in both the difference drops to about £9K which is still a substantial amount but depending on the country some of this expense can be eased but government sweeteners and this is before you account for running cost because if you are wanting to you charge at home rather than at a charging station.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by footie

The problem is that the i4 even in base model isn't the equivalent to a basic 3 series or 4GC because it's performance is so much more. To get the same levels of performance from a 4GC you need to the 430i and if you want an M/Sport in both the difference drops to about £9K which is still a substantial amount but depending on the country some of this expense can be eased but government sweeteners and this is before you account for running cost because if you are wanting to you charge at home rather than at a charging station.

So give me an i4 with the performance of a 420i for the 420i price and I'll shut up.
As long as the performance is enough (equivalent of some 200 hp or more) I don't care and will not pay for it if it can be avoided.

[footie]

Originally Posted by matbl

So give me an i4 with the performance of a 420i for the 420i price and I'll shut up.
As long as the performance is enough (equivalent of some 200 hp or more) I don't care and will not pay for it if it can be avoided.

I totally agree the current range of i4s is way too small and too narrow of a performance envelope.

It will come just don't think it will happen with the current i4.

[vinny84]

Wow! Thank you for all of the comments, whether you agree or not! I also didn't expect my thread to be featured on the front page of Bimmerpost, cool!

Just wanted to give everyone here an update...

I had an i4 M50 on order as I was certain I will be adding one to the garage. Unfortunately for my wallet, the dealer had a 2021 Porsche Taycan RWD with Battery Performance Plus and some other light options.

Needless to say after a test drive, the rest was history. As of Monday, I am now a proud Taycan owner!

This doesn't change the fact that the i4 M50 is an amazing all around car. If I needed one vehicle and didn't already have a daily driver, then hands down I would of kept my order for an M50

If anyone has any direct questions, feel free to PM me and we can exchange numbers as I'm rarely on here.

[M40i4me]

Originally Posted by vinny84

Wow! Thank you for all of the comments, whether you agree or not! I also didn't expect my thread to be featured on the front page of Bimmerpost, cool!

Just wanted to give everyone here an update...

I had an i4 M50 on order as I was certain I will be adding one to the garage. Unfortunately for my wallet, the dealer had a 2021 Porsche Taycan RWD with Battery Performance Plus and some other light options.

Needless to say after a test drive, the rest was history. As of Monday, I am now a proud Taycan owner!

This doesn't change the fact that the i4 M50 is an amazing all around car. If I needed one vehicle and didn't already have a daily driver, then hands down I would of kept my order for an M50

If anyone has any direct questions, feel free to PM me and we can exchange numbers as I'm rarely on here.

Sad ending to a great story! Just kidding, thanks for the excellent write up and enjoy your new Taycan. Would love to see a similar review as well.

[pharding]

Originally Posted by BMWpowered

Loved the review! Didn't realize the M50 is so close to the Model 3 Performance in terms of price. Factor in that 7.5k rebate in the US and depending on the configurations, it can get pretty similar.

The long-range though would be a more direct comparison with the eDrive40 in terms of price, and speed.

The Model 3 AWD Long Range is the best match with the I4 M50. Even considering the Federal tax credit the Model 3 is a better value when comparably equipped. Actually it is substantially better. The BMW i4 is a better car. At the present time Tesla leases are noticeably better than BMW for a comparably equipped car. BMW residuals, money factor, no deals, all suck big time on the i4 if you lease. Hopefully that will change by the time I am ready to order in October for May 1, 2023 delivery. I would to like to lease an i4 but I won't do it at the current lease numbers. Otherwise I'll be driving a Fiskar Ocean or Tesla Model 3.

[cruzer666]

Originally Posted by pharding

The Model 3 AWD Long Range is the best match with the I4 M50. Even considering the Federal tax credit the Model 3 is a better value when comparably equipped. Actually it is substantially better. The BMW i4 is a better car.

There's no such thing as a Model 3 comparably equipped. You have no dashboard, no HUD, no leather, no seat ventilation, no hands free driving, not even close when it comes to build quality, poor fit and finish, no smartphone integration. As far as performance goes the AWD version of the Model 3 is not even close when it comes to real world performance.

Cheers!

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by pharding

The Model 3 AWD Long Range is the best match with the I4 M50. Even considering the Federal tax credit the Model 3 is a better value when comparably equipped. Actually it is substantially better. The BMW i4 is a better car. At the present time Tesla leases are noticeably better than BMW for a comparably equipped car. BMW residuals, money factor, no deals, all suck big time on the i4 if you lease. Hopefully that will change by the time I am ready to order in October for May 1, 2023 delivery. I would to like to lease an i4 but I won't do it at the current lease numbers. Otherwise I'll be driving a Fiskar Ocean or Tesla Model 3.

The Model 3 Performance is the comparable model to the I4 M50. Same performance numbers.

And the M3P is now $62k without metallic paint, white interior or FSD.

That is equivalent to a $65k M50. Minus the tax credit and the M50 is $58k.

Advantage BMW.

Add FSD and metallic paint to the M3P and the price is about $75k.

Add everything to a BMW except exterior carbon and the M50 is $80k. Subtract the $7500 and you get to $72500. You can get down another $2500 if you don't opt for the 20" wheels.

Advantage BMW because you will get HUD, leather seats, better ADAS, laser headlights, etc

A M3P has no advantages except maybe range on the M50.

[footie]

Originally Posted by vinny84

Wow! Thank you for all of the comments, whether you agree or not! I also didn't expect my thread to be featured on the front page of Bimmerpost, cool!

Just wanted to give everyone here an update...

I had an i4 M50 on order as I was certain I will be adding one to the garage. Unfortunately for my wallet, the dealer had a 2021 Porsche Taycan RWD with Battery Performance Plus and some other light options.

Needless to say after a test drive, the rest was history. As of Monday, I am now a proud Taycan owner!

This doesn't change the fact that the i4 M50 is an amazing all around car. If I needed one vehicle and didn't already have a daily driver, then hands down I would of kept my order for an M50

If anyone has any direct questions, feel free to PM me and we can exchange numbers as I'm rarely on here.

Congrats with your choice, the brother’s Taycan Cross Turismo 4S is due hopefully in August though this keeps getting pushed back from June a few months ago. He’s a brave man because he’s went for the green with the black 21s, should look like this. Can’t wait to compare directly against mine i4M50, which I will do a write up when it comes.

Your RWD one is all the performance anyone really needs and once moving the added traction of the AWD is removed and there isn’t a huge difference in real world performance. I’ve yet to drive the RWD Taycan but by all accounts it’s the sweetest drive of the range.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by cruzer666

There's no such thing as a Model 3 comparably equipped. You have no dashboard, no HUD, no leather, no seat ventilation, no hands free driving, not even close when it comes to build quality, poor fit and finish, no smartphone integration. As far as performance goes the AWD version of the Model 3 is not even close when it comes to real world performance.

Cheers!

I've had a model 3 performance, and I agree with you. Pretty lousy overall. Good marks for performance, price, space, and efficiency.

[WhereItsAt]

Comparing similarly equipped models
Model 3 Performance (no US EV Credit): 62,990
i4 (Full US EV Credit): 70,725- 7,500 = 63,225

I Chose no cost options on the Model 3 and this version of the i4. I THINK this is comparable. For me the i4 is the clear winner, even without the tax credit. The interior design, material quality and overall fit and finish on top of the exterior design and far more quiet interior outweighs the Model 3 roomier back seat, frunk and possibly greater efficiency.

[scarletfever]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Correct, the Camry and Accord owners love Tesla as being easy and practical, but they also ignore the steep price premium for the Tesla experience over super affordable and easy Camry and Accord.

I'm an Accord owner who decided on the i4 over the Model 3 and it wasn't even close.

Family sedans usually have really soft suspension, I found the Model 3 to be an extremely harsh ride. And quite honestly, for the first time ever spending more than like, $30k on a car, I hated the idea of entering the car and there being literally nothing besides a tablet screen.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by scarletfever

I'm an Accord owner who decided on the i4 over the Model 3 and it wasn't even close.

Family sedans usually have really soft suspension, I found the Model 3 to be an extremely harsh ride. And quite honestly, for the first time ever spending more than like, $30k on a car, I hated the idea of entering the car and there being literally nothing besides a tablet screen.

savagegeese has a good characterization of i4 vs model 3, it goes like "BMW builds cars .... A Tesla product is an EV that unfortunately is driven by people"

The video is in another thread, go to @20:20

[cruzer666]

Here's another review relevant to this thread. Disclaimers:
- It is 46 minutes long, it's best on a long cardio session
- It's done by a Tesla owner that works for a BMW dealership
- it's not a profesional review, just a guy that had Tesla Model 3 for a few years that will switch to an I4.

[stevehifi]

Originally Posted by cruzer666

As of March 2022, in US, there are 1315 Tesla Supercharger locations vs as of February 2022, 7018 Public DC fast charging locations, with the number growing exponentially in the next few years.

That's funny because the other day while stopped to charge at a location which had 20 superchargers, I was glancing at the 5 EA Level 3 chargers still wrapped in cellophane wrap and not even powered on yet.

I guess I owned an M50 that would definitely ruin my day.. looking for a place to charge.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by cruzer666

https://youtu.be/-VY6zNyj2UE

Here's another review relevant to this thread. Disclaimers:
- It is 46 minutes long, it's best on a long cardio session
- It's done by a Tesla owner that works for a BMW dealership
- it's not a profesional review, just a guy that had Tesla Model 3 for a few years that will switch to an I4.

This is a very good review and comparison.
Giving details on fit and finish along with driving experience.

He also talks about the tech and give a really good comparison. Things like active cruise on a Tesla that isn't reliable and even the backup camera lines not lining up, to their park assist not being reliable.

All this is important when people claim "Tesla has better tech".

Good video