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      06-14-2022, 08:50 AM   #1
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BMW testing new battery in iX with 600 miles range

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Testing a new battery in the iX that can, in theory, go 600 miles per charge. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...range-battery/
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      06-14-2022, 09:43 AM   #2
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if it works, maybe they can retro existing cars.
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      06-14-2022, 09:51 AM   #3
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if it works, maybe they can retro existing cars.
This is the reason why leasing is more popular on EVs today.

If the new chemistry works, I think it will be years before it ends up in new cars, we aren't going to see it on 2024 models if it's just starting testing now.
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      06-14-2022, 09:51 AM   #4
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Very exciting. We all know this will cost a huge premium, but over time this cost should taper and trickle into the rest of the fleet.

Curious if this is just more battery or different battery technology. I'll read the article later.
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      06-14-2022, 10:01 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by reprod View Post
Very exciting. We all know this will cost a huge premium, but over time this cost should taper and trickle into the rest of the fleet.

Curious if this is just more battery or different battery technology. I'll read the article later.
It's two battery packs, one new chemistry (manganese) higher energy density that can't provide as deep of a charge/discharge that is used for maintaining speed and another more standard Lithium Iron Phosphate that is used for higher power/acceleration.

I'm not sure why that means for charging rates or time, or wear and tear on the LFP if it's constantly being hammered whenever it is used. Sounds like a prototype now so they are probably answering those questions as well.
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      06-14-2022, 10:01 AM   #6
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600 miles is really going to have to be the range people will want

Also read about other technologies which look promising to overtake lithium

Namely aluminium ion and sodium ion
Sodium ion I understand India are investing in heavily, removes the reliance on getting lithium, sodium being more prevalent

Despite EVs having been around for quite a while now, the current still feel like early adoption . Works well for some but not for all
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      06-14-2022, 10:14 AM   #7
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Sure, more range is great but what people will really want is charging speed. What would you rather be the future; 600 mile range but it takes an hour and a half to charge up with a fast charger or 350 mile range and you can charge up in 10 mins?
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      06-14-2022, 10:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
Sure, more range is great but what people will really want is charging speed. What would you rather be the future; 600 mile range but it takes an hour and a half to charge up with a fast charger or 350 mile range and you can charge up in 10 mins?
I think the cable technology is what is throttling charge speed, at least partially. I am personally fine with 200-300 mile range with quicker fast charge times.
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      06-14-2022, 10:46 AM   #9
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600 miles is good as in real life range especially in winter is not close. 300 miles in winter condition as a real world range would be perfect.
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      06-14-2022, 11:35 AM   #10
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I'd rather just have a weight reduction, which would help range somewhat.

After driving an e-tron across the US west a few times, even it's 222 mile range is fine for road tripping, and 99% of my daily use is less than 50 miles. If I can stop for 20 minutes every 2-3 hours of driving and then get back on the road that gets me to parity with road trips with ICE. Even the e-tron only added 38 minutes to a 12 hour trip over ICE.
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      06-14-2022, 11:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
Sure, more range is great but what people will really want is charging speed. What would you rather be the future; 600 mile range but it takes an hour and a half to charge up with a fast charger or 350 mile range and you can charge up in 10 mins?
Uh, I choose Option B...
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      06-14-2022, 11:51 AM   #12
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600 rated and ~480 real world I can live with that. Lookout Tesla!
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      06-14-2022, 12:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
I'd rather just have a weight reduction, which would help range somewhat.

After driving an e-tron across the US west a few times, even it's 222 mile range is fine for road tripping, and 99% of my daily use is less than 50 miles. If I can stop for 20 minutes every 2-3 hours of driving and then get back on the road that gets me to parity with road trips with ICE. Even the e-tron only added 38 minutes to a 12 hour trip over ICE.
Ehhhhh… I'm calling BS to your claim of only adding 30 mins to a 12 hour trip. Yearly I drive from Jersey to Atlanta and that's 13 hours in my ICE X5. I make it from Jersey to deep NC before my first fill up. Then I make it from there to approx 70 miles from ATL before I top off for the last time. Those two stops with grabbing a bite is more than 30 mins. If you drive something with 220 miles range and stop every two hours you'll easily add at least 4 hours to that drive. Electric vehicles aren't even close to ICE vehicles when it comes to long drives.
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      06-14-2022, 12:34 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by JerZBMerLife View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
I'd rather just have a weight reduction, which would help range somewhat.

After driving an e-tron across the US west a few times, even it's 222 mile range is fine for road tripping, and 99% of my daily use is less than 50 miles. If I can stop for 20 minutes every 2-3 hours of driving and then get back on the road that gets me to parity with road trips with ICE. Even the e-tron only added 38 minutes to a 12 hour trip over ICE.
Ehhhhh… I'm calling BS to your claim of only adding 30 mins to a 12 hour trip. Yearly I drive from Jersey to Atlanta and that's 13 hours in my ICE X5. I make it from Jersey to deep NC before my first fill up. Then I make it from there to approx 70 miles from ATL before I top off for the last time. Those two stops with grabbing a bite is more than 30 mins. If you drive something with 220 miles range and stop every two hours you'll easily add at least 4 hours to that drive. Electric vehicles aren't even close to ICE vehicles when it comes to long drives.

Ok, I mis remembered, it was 47 minutes!

Note also that it was a 5000 ft elevation increase going back the other way in the e-tron, not bad compared to my X3. Fast forward to 27:50 for the summary.

I agree it totally depends on your cadence. I actually like stopping every 2-3 hours to stretch and that's going to be every 150-200 miles. If you can tolerate driving a car from full to empty between stops, yes you could cut your stops in half potentially but I'd never do that, even going cross country.
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      06-14-2022, 01:18 PM   #15
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Chop the battery in half, get 300 miles of range, drop the cost and more importantly the weight.
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      06-14-2022, 01:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
Sure, more range is great but what people will really want is charging speed. What would you rather be the future; 600 mile range but it takes an hour and a half to charge up with a fast charger or 350 mile range and you can charge up in 10 mins?
I think charging speed as long as it isnt a function of battery health, it must be added. Most people would if they could, avoid fast charging if they know the damage battery takes on the cycle. Hence, new battery tech would be super useful. Solid state is an obvious one, but that is years away for cars.
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      06-14-2022, 03:47 PM   #17
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article makes no sense

99% of range provided by low density LFP battery ... the car is going to have batteries leaking out of its [strikethru]eyeballs[/s] buck teeth if that's accurate
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      06-14-2022, 04:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post

Ok, I mis remembered, it was 47 minutes!

Note also that it was a 5000 ft elevation increase going back the other way in the e-tron, not bad compared to my X3. Fast forward to 27:50 for the summary.

I agree it totally depends on your cadence. I actually like stopping every 2-3 hours to stretch and that's going to be every 150-200 miles. If you can tolerate driving a car from full to empty between stops, yes you could cut your stops in half potentially but I'd never do that, even going cross country.
My experience with the i4 m50 on the 20" wheels is the same as yours. I just did a 3500km roadtrip and i would never need more range. It comes at a cost, both weight and price. Big batteries with 600mile range will be an option in the future. Useless extra weight and cost to most people.

Probably spent something like 45-60 min on unwanted stop combined during the trip. Some of that was also due to minimizing charge cost by using Ionity as much as possible and charging alot from over 40% to over 90%.

I drive 8-9 hours + to and from work many times every year in a diesel. Its nice to stop for 5 min and refuel and get back to driving when you want to get home. But its absolute torture, and its a 1% thing, very few people do that and the few times they do still wont justify 250-300kg of battery the rest of the year. They will make those 600mile cars, but its not something most customers will need or even want when presented with the cost/effectiveness numbers.

By the way.. From my experience roadtripping around europe in ICE cars many summers with 4 people in the car. Its very hard to make quick stops when you are not alone in the car. Charging pretty much creates some kind of structure to the trip. I know from experience that if you pull over at a gas station just because 1 guy needs to take a piss the time to reach destination will pop up 15-20 min. Its just how things go. When you stop to charge its both planned and relaxed, people get their stuff sorted and you stay on the road for another 2-3 hours.. Just a thought i had from my experience with long trips and many people in the car. EV driving gets more structured by default, you know where and when you are stopping next.

Last edited by Hansn; 06-14-2022 at 04:21 PM..
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      06-15-2022, 09:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
I'd rather just have a weight reduction, which would help range somewhat.

After driving an e-tron across the US west a few times, even it's 222 mile range is fine for road tripping, and 99% of my daily use is less than 50 miles. If I can stop for 20 minutes every 2-3 hours of driving and then get back on the road that gets me to parity with road trips with ICE. Even the e-tron only added 38 minutes to a 12 hour trip over ICE.
Just stepped into an EV for the first time and would agree with this for the most part. Only caveat is local round trips like San Diego to LA. This is a normal route for me so I was looking for something over 300 mile range. Even that is a corner case though. The more I drive our EV the more I like it and the less important crazy ranges are to me in the real world.
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      06-18-2022, 04:59 AM   #20
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      06-20-2022, 07:13 PM   #21
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600 mile range is important for rural travel. I looked into an eTron but couldn't make it to my family farm from the last charging station with enough juice to get back. 110v charging at the AirBnB that I stay at when I'm working on the farm is not a good solution.

As infrastructure improves over the next 20-40 years, a 600 mile range will become unnecessary. Charging points will be as common as gas stations.

This argument is no different than the horse and buggy folks talking about getting gasoline for the horseless carriages in the early days of the automobile.
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