[ilya4min]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

I posted this guide before, it was well received and helped a few people get their leases cheaply. With the recent discussions about discounts going down, it will be helpful to have a dedicated thread on lease negotiations. Feel free to ask questions, crowdsource tips, and share dealer/broker information. I will update comment #2 with links to most helpful comments to create a kind of wiki.

Overview
I ended up getting 2 similar deals from 2 Bay Area dealers: (1) 10% off MSRP with MF of 0.00111, and (2) 11.65% off with MF of 0.00151. These appear to be among the best terms I’ve seen online in July/August 2023 for a custom orders, but these terms are absolutely replicatable. Dealers are more motivated to sell the incoming cars and cars already on the lots, so for them discounts can reach 12-13% at base MF. Details of the deal (1):

• 10% off MSRP, so selling price is 108K, down from 120K, for a custom order M60.
• “Base” money factor (MF) of 0.00111, which is equal to APR 2.6%
• $9900 lease credits and an extra $1000 for having a graduation from Stanford GSB later this year (it's just a certificate, not even a degree, but it did work)
• Complete zero drive-off. Dealer asked for 1K refundable deposit.
• Payment at almost exactly $1400 per month, inclusive of taxes and fees. This is 36/7.5K miles lease.
• Promise that if BMW financial improves terms while the car is being built, I get the better terms (typically, it's both MF and lease rebate)
• Dealer said it's ok if I return the car with different tires, so I can change to all-season tires right away. Not clear if this will work in the end, but getting this from dealer in writing might be useful if returning the car to the same dealer.

Process
You should definitely reach out to brokers first and see what they have, and decide whether you're willing to go with them. Most brokers work with multiple dealers across the country, and will have access to stock at each of those dealers and/or can place an order at them. One of my brokers was going to deliver my car to a dealer at Idaho: it would be a 800 mile flight + road trip for me, and I was OK doing this adventure to save a few thousand. To find brokers, go to Leasehackr forum, select your state and BMW as the make. I personally messaged all the brokers who were active in the last month. If you don’t see too many brokers who work in your region, you can also check the ones who list neighboring states as well, if you’re ok picking up your car there. When messaging, explain your situation and what you're looking for. They all prefer to sell you stock, but if they don't have what you want, also ask for a custom order and what kind of deal they can do. Most brokers will still give you a good discount on orders, but usually they are better for stock.

For local dealers, suggest you test drive with a few of them (as many as you care, maybe pick different models), ideally identify the cars in stock you like. They all suffer from the “sunk cost fallacy” and will give you a better deal if they have already spent time with you. Mine wanted to push stock at first and didn't offer too much of a discount. Tables turned when I texted them something like: "FYI, got a couple of offers from brokers at 9-10% off MSRP, so will have to go that way. Would love to buy locally, but the price difference is too much. Thank you for test drive and getting me sold on the car”.

I was only doing it not to be rude, and didn't expect anything, but there was some magic in what I said and both local dealers promised to give me 10% off on an order. One in the end didn't follow through, but the other one did.

With both brokers and dealers, remember that you can only get the best deal if you're absolutely willing to buy today, but you’re also willing to walk away - they'll keep giving you better offers until they can no longer go lower, and then they let you walk. You can always come back to the best deal they had offered before you walk away, even if they claim that deal is "dead if you walk out the door" or something.

Zero drive-off was the last thing I negotiated. You usually start with the big items and you continue to smaller ones. Biggest items are: 1) discount 2) MF 3) specific car or order. Smaller are 4) money down 5) additional discounts (e.g. college grad discount for me - extra work for dealer) 6) extra favors (e.g. returning the car with another set of tires)

To summarize
1) Text all brokers who had activity on Leasehackr within ~1 month and see what deals / offers they have. Ideally you'd find something you like in stock for the best deal.
2) Cross-shop with brokers, tell everyone what the best deal you got, they're going to all progressively improve. Eventually, you should find a few you can actually go with, e.g. the drive is not too far to pick up and return the car, or you're ok with delivery fees.
3) Schedule test drives with BMW dealers nearby. They will only give you their best deals if you test drive. Counter-intuitive but true.
4) Hopefully by the time you test drive, you get some decent offers from the brokers, and can present them to your dealers. You’ll see if any of them are motivated enough to offer you a deal.

Worth it?
I did all that while still deciding which car and configuration I wanted, so didn’t really spend much extra time. But if this all sounds like too much work for a few thousand dollars of discount - maybe it is, for you. Everyone is always free to pay any price they want and be happy with the car, and the price is surely not the only factor. Build timeline, trade-in value, time spent, relationship with the dealership, fees, positive and negative extras, and other factors also matter. I personally hate the car buying process, but find it helps me master my negotiation skills. In addition, getting this kind of deal was essential for me to consider BMW - it would be too much outside of my target budget otherwise.

 If you’re trying to understand if a dealer is giving you a good deal - plug the numbers in Leasehackr calculator and see what payment you’re supposed to get with the canonical best terms, and/or the terms they're offering. If something looks way off, dealer/broker is probably trying to hide something.

[ilya4min]

Links and references
under construction

Tips
- You can use MSDs even if you live in New York, just use out-of-state dealer
- You can use any leasing program/incentives available starting your credit application, until delivery
- Check Edmunds forum for “reference” lease terms
- Don't put any money down. Even the first payment, even taxes or fees. Ask your dealer to structure your lease as "zero drive off" to save more and minimize risk.

Brokers
California: Arya @ LuxConcierge +1 (714) 683-4184‬
Northeast: Scott @ Insight Auto +1 (516) 416-5481‬. Also here as smithf80

Dealers
Bay Area: Evgeniy @ PeterPan +1 (408) 507-1169
Bay Area: Sue @ Weatherford +1 (510) 647-6940

[330 CSi]

Do you think they should discount more than 10% for cars on the lot?

[ilya4min]

Originally Posted by 330 CSi

Do you think they should discount more than 10% for cars on the lot?

It is possible. I've heard about 12-13% off for in-stock cars, but at that point I hear the dealer starts to actually lose money on the sale. As of today, these kinds of deals will likely be applicable to cars that the dealer is desperate to sell. Maybe cancelled custom orders with very unusual options selection.

[cyber2142]

Super helpful, thanks.

Seems like it's in the range of 9-10% in NYC and surrounding area, with some NY based dealerships in broker's network not doing MSD.

Also seeing some variance in doc fee from low 100s to high 500s.

I've never opted for having car shipped before. I generally found better deal more to the south (PA, then DMV area) compared to tri-state.

[mf44]

Originally Posted by cyber2142

with some NY based dealerships in broker's network not doing MSD.

Interesting factoid: New York law basically prohibits MSDs. So, if you are looking to use MSDs, you cannot use any NY-based dealer. This is dependent entirely on dealer location, NOT on registration location. In other words, you can register a car in NY with MSDs with no problem, but it still needs to be purchased at a non-NY dealership.

[mf44]

OP, two points of clarification: when you order, you are entitled to take whatever lease programs are best from when you complete a credit app (this is a key distinction; you do not lock rates until you do the credit app) until you take delivery, but you need to take the entirety of the programs for the selected month. In other words, you cannot take the MF from one month and the incentives from another. You need to take MF, RV, incentives, and all, from a single month. Additionally, there is some ambiguity on how long the rate lock lasts for. It used to be 90 days west coast, 60 days east coast; COVID led to them extending to 120 days IIRC, but it's unknown if that will last forever.

Second, I'd make sure the summer vs. all season tire concession they gave you was in writing. When I returned my last lease, I got dinged for a much smaller difference in tire type than what you are saying the dealer has allowed. I've always been told it needs to be the same type of tire, i.e. summers in your case. Hopefully not that case, but just make sure you have some documentation in case you need to fight BMWFS later. (And this is the important part, your lease is with BMW Financial Services, not with the dealership or BMW NA. Hence the dealership promise not necessarily being binding).

[cyber2142]

Originally Posted by mf44

Interesting factoid: New York law basically prohibits MSDs. So, if you are looking to use MSDs, you cannot use any NY-based dealer. This is dependent entirely on dealer location, NOT on registration location. In other words, you can register a car in NY with MSDs with no problem, but it still needs to be purchased at a non-NY dealership.

Didn't know that. Very helpful to know when shopping around.

MSDs seems to be a pretty good deal despite banks doing 4-5% interest on savings account these days. On the other hand, one time payment for 0.0003 MF reduction seems like terrible deal compared to MSD based on quick dirty calc, so I didn't bother asking about one time payment availability in NY dealership

[mf44]

Originally Posted by cyber2142

MSDs seems to be a pretty good deal despite banks doing 4-5% interest on savings account these days. On the other hand, one time payment for 0.0003 MF reduction seems like terrible deal compared to MSD based on quick dirty calc, so I didn't bother asking about one time payment availability in NY dealership

I agree; in my mind MSDs are a no-brainer. The only time you may not want them is if you are considering swapping out of the lease at a later time. You would need to get the person taking over the lease to pay you the MSDs back ahead of time, because BMW won't return them until the lease maturity. It seems most lay people don't understand MSDs so it makes "selling" a swap harder.

[infinitekidM2C]

Thanks OP, i'm about to negotiate a lease as my car is at the local port awaiting coding.

[ilya4min]

Originally Posted by mf44

OP, two points of clarification: when you order, you are entitled to take whatever lease programs are best from when you complete a credit app (this is a key distinction; you do not lock rates until you do the credit app) until you take delivery, but you need to take the entirety of the programs for the selected month. In other words, you cannot take the MF from one month and the incentives from another. You need to take MF, RV, incentives, and all, from a single month. Additionally, there is some ambiguity on how long the rate lock lasts for. It used to be 90 days west coast, 60 days east coast; COVID led to them extending to 120 days IIRC, but it's unknown if that will last forever.

Second, I'd make sure the summer vs. all season tire concession they gave you was in writing. When I returned my last lease, I got dinged for a much smaller difference in tire type than what you are saying the dealer has allowed. I've always been told it needs to be the same type of tire, i.e. summers in your case. Hopefully not that case, but just make sure you have some documentation in case you need to fight BMWFS later. (And this is the important part, your lease is with BMW Financial Services, not with the dealership or BMW NA. Hence the dealership promise not necessarily being binding).

All great points! Added a couple of links to the wiki post, and updated wording regarding the tires in the manual directly. I ended up changing my order to an iX50 with 20" wheels and AS tires. I'm still planning to swap/sell the stock Goodyears right away, but since it's an AS->AS swap, and I will actually have thread wear warranty, I'm confident I can return the car with the replacement tires at no extra expense, while also enjoying the far superior qualities of Michelin Pilot AS for the 3 years.

[ilya4min]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C

Thanks OP, i'm about to negotiate a lease as my car is at the local port awaiting coding.

It's best to negotiate your lease before you order, but I hope you still manage to get a good deal! The broker Arya offered me the canonical perfect deal with a dealership in OC, which appears to be where you are. So worst-case you could reorder with her, and/or get her dealer to swap your car.

[sker]

Wondering if anyone has any leads for those dealers who are willing to offer 12-13% off pre-incentive(s).

Cheers and Thank you.

[ilya4min]

Originally Posted by sker

Wondering if anyone has any leads for those dealers who are willing to offer 12-13% off pre-incentive(s).

Cheers and Thank you.

This broker is offering 12% off to Bay Area residents, on pre-built vehicles. You'd have to pay $500 broker fee, which somewhat eats into the discount.

I'd suggest checking cars.com for configurations you like that your local dealers have, go test-drive and see if they can offer a deal you like. To get more than 10%, you may need to identify specific car that has been very hard to sell.

[javapro]

Originally Posted by ilya4min

I posted this guide before, it was well received and helped a few people get their leases cheaply. With the recent discussions about discounts going down, it will be helpful to have a dedicated thread on lease negotiations. Feel free to ask questions, crowdsource tips, and share dealer/broker information. I will update comment #2 with links to most helpful comments to create a kind of wiki.

Overview
I ended up getting 2 similar deals from 2 Bay Area dealers: (1) 10% off MSRP with MF of 0.00111, and (2) 11.65% off with MF of 0.00151. These appear to be among the best terms I’ve seen online in July/August 2023 for a custom orders, but these terms are absolutely replicatable. Dealers are more motivated to sell the incoming cars and cars already on the lots, so for them discounts can reach 12-13% at base MF. Details of the deal (1):

• 10% off MSRP, so selling price is 108K, down from 120K, for a custom order M60.
• “Base” money factor (MF) of 0.00111, which is equal to APR 2.6%
• $9900 lease credits and an extra $1000 for having a graduation from Stanford GSB later this year (it's just a certificate, not even a degree, but it did work)
• Complete zero drive-off. Dealer asked for 1K refundable deposit.
• Payment at almost exactly $1400 per month, inclusive of taxes and fees. This is 36/7.5K miles lease.
• Promise that if BMW financial improves terms while the car is being built, I get the better terms (typically, it's both MF and lease rebate)
• Dealer said it's ok if I return the car with different tires, so I can change to all-season tires right away. Not clear if this will work in the end, but getting this from dealer in writing might be useful if returning the car to the same dealer.

Process
You should definitely reach out to brokers first and see what they have, and decide whether you're willing to go with them. Most brokers work with multiple dealers across the country, and will have access to stock at each of those dealers and/or can place an order at them. One of my brokers was going to deliver my car to a dealer at Idaho: it would be a 800 mile flight + road trip for me, and I was OK doing this adventure to save a few thousand. To find brokers, go to Leasehackr forum, select your state and BMW as the make. I personally messaged all the brokers who were active in the last month. If you don’t see too many brokers who work in your region, you can also check the ones who list neighboring states as well, if you’re ok picking up your car there. When messaging, explain your situation and what you're looking for. They all prefer to sell you stock, but if they don't have what you want, also ask for a custom order and what kind of deal they can do. Most brokers will still give you a good discount on orders, but usually they are better for stock.

For local dealers, suggest you test drive with a few of them (as many as you care, maybe pick different models), ideally identify the cars in stock you like. They all suffer from the “sunk cost fallacy” and will give you a better deal if they have already spent time with you. Mine wanted to push stock at first and didn't offer too much of a discount. Tables turned when I texted them something like: "FYI, got a couple of offers from brokers at 9-10% off MSRP, so will have to go that way. Would love to buy locally, but the price difference is too much. Thank you for test drive and getting me sold on the car”.

I was only doing it not to be rude, and didn't expect anything, but there was some magic in what I said and both local dealers promised to give me 10% off on an order. One in the end didn't follow through, but the other one did.

With both brokers and dealers, remember that you can only get the best deal if you're absolutely willing to buy today, but you’re also willing to walk away - they'll keep giving you better offers until they can no longer go lower, and then they let you walk. You can always come back to the best deal they had offered before you walk away, even if they claim that deal is "dead if you walk out the door" or something.

Zero drive-off was the last thing I negotiated. You usually start with the big items and you continue to smaller ones. Biggest items are: 1) discount 2) MF 3) specific car or order. Smaller are 4) money down 5) additional discounts (e.g. college grad discount for me - extra work for dealer) 6) extra favors (e.g. returning the car with another set of tires)

To summarize
1) Text all brokers who had activity on Leasehackr within ~1 month and see what deals / offers they have. Ideally you'd find something you like in stock for the best deal.
2) Cross-shop with brokers, tell everyone what the best deal you got, they're going to all progressively improve. Eventually, you should find a few you can actually go with, e.g. the drive is not too far to pick up and return the car, or you're ok with delivery fees.
3) Schedule test drives with BMW dealers nearby. They will only give you their best deals if you test drive. Counter-intuitive but true.
4) Hopefully by the time you test drive, you get some decent offers from the brokers, and can present them to your dealers. You’ll see if any of them are motivated enough to offer you a deal.

Worth it?
I did all that while still deciding which car and configuration I wanted, so didn’t really spend much extra time. But if this all sounds like too much work for a few thousand dollars of discount - maybe it is, for you. Everyone is always free to pay any price they want and be happy with the car, and the price is surely not the only factor. Build timeline, trade-in value, time spent, relationship with the dealership, fees, positive and negative extras, and other factors also matter. I personally hate the car buying process, but find it helps me master my negotiation skills. In addition, getting this kind of deal was essential for me to consider BMW - it would be too much outside of my target budget otherwise.

 If you’re trying to understand if a dealer is giving you a good deal - plug the numbers in Leasehackr calculator and see what payment you’re supposed to get with the canonical best terms, and/or the terms they're offering. If something looks way off, dealer/broker is probably trying to hide something.

$1,400 per month seems kind of high using the selling price you describe. Even if I add $2.9K in fees your selling price should be around 100K. With 0.00111 MF and 54% RV and 7.25% California sales tax, your monthly payment should be around $1,244. What am I missing?

[ilya4min]

Originally Posted by javapro

$1,400 per month seems kind of high using the selling price you describe. Even if I add $2.9K in fees your selling price should be around 100K. With 0.00111 MF and 54% RV and 7.25% California sales tax, your monthly payment should be around $1,244. What am I missing?

Here's the leasehackr calculator for the deal described above. Selling price would be 108K for 120K MSRP. Looks like the tax rate is different, it actually depends on the county IIUC.

I ended up going with a different deal at Peter Pan BMW after Air Suspension came back as an option. It's marginally higher than the 10% off buy rate deal, but not enough that I care.

[javapro]

Originally Posted by ilya4min

I posted this guide before, it was well received and helped a few people get their leases cheaply. With the recent discussions about discounts going down, it will be helpful to have a dedicated thread on lease negotiations. Feel free to ask questions, crowdsource tips, and share dealer/broker information. I will update comment #2 with links to most helpful comments to create a kind of wiki.

Overview
I ended up getting 2 similar deals from 2 Bay Area dealers: (1) 10% off MSRP with MF of 0.00111, and (2) 11.65% off with MF of 0.00151. These appear to be among the best terms I’ve seen online in July/August 2023 for a custom orders, but these terms are absolutely replicatable. Dealers are more motivated to sell the incoming cars and cars already on the lots, so for them discounts can reach 12-13% at base MF. Details of the deal (1):

• 10% off MSRP, so selling price is 108K, down from 120K, for a custom order M60.
• “Base” money factor (MF) of 0.00111, which is equal to APR 2.6%
• $9900 lease credits and an extra $1000 for having a graduation from Stanford GSB later this year (it's just a certificate, not even a degree, but it did work)
• Complete zero drive-off. Dealer asked for 1K refundable deposit.
• Payment at almost exactly $1400 per month, inclusive of taxes and fees. This is 36/7.5K miles lease.
• Promise that if BMW financial improves terms while the car is being built, I get the better terms (typically, it's both MF and lease rebate)
• Dealer said it's ok if I return the car with different tires, so I can change to all-season tires right away. Not clear if this will work in the end, but getting this from dealer in writing might be useful if returning the car to the same dealer.

Process
You should definitely reach out to brokers first and see what they have, and decide whether you're willing to go with them. Most brokers work with multiple dealers across the country, and will have access to stock at each of those dealers and/or can place an order at them. One of my brokers was going to deliver my car to a dealer at Idaho: it would be a 800 mile flight + road trip for me, and I was OK doing this adventure to save a few thousand. To find brokers, go to Leasehackr forum, select your state and BMW as the make. I personally messaged all the brokers who were active in the last month. If you don’t see too many brokers who work in your region, you can also check the ones who list neighboring states as well, if you’re ok picking up your car there. When messaging, explain your situation and what you're looking for. They all prefer to sell you stock, but if they don't have what you want, also ask for a custom order and what kind of deal they can do. Most brokers will still give you a good discount on orders, but usually they are better for stock.

For local dealers, suggest you test drive with a few of them (as many as you care, maybe pick different models), ideally identify the cars in stock you like. They all suffer from the “sunk cost fallacy” and will give you a better deal if they have already spent time with you. Mine wanted to push stock at first and didn't offer too much of a discount. Tables turned when I texted them something like: "FYI, got a couple of offers from brokers at 9-10% off MSRP, so will have to go that way. Would love to buy locally, but the price difference is too much. Thank you for test drive and getting me sold on the car”.

I was only doing it not to be rude, and didn't expect anything, but there was some magic in what I said and both local dealers promised to give me 10% off on an order. One in the end didn't follow through, but the other one did.

With both brokers and dealers, remember that you can only get the best deal if you're absolutely willing to buy today, but you’re also willing to walk away - they'll keep giving you better offers until they can no longer go lower, and then they let you walk. You can always come back to the best deal they had offered before you walk away, even if they claim that deal is "dead if you walk out the door" or something.

Zero drive-off was the last thing I negotiated. You usually start with the big items and you continue to smaller ones. Biggest items are: 1) discount 2) MF 3) specific car or order. Smaller are 4) money down 5) additional discounts (e.g. college grad discount for me - extra work for dealer) 6) extra favors (e.g. returning the car with another set of tires)

To summarize
1) Text all brokers who had activity on Leasehackr within ~1 month and see what deals / offers they have. Ideally you'd find something you like in stock for the best deal.
2) Cross-shop with brokers, tell everyone what the best deal you got, they're going to all progressively improve. Eventually, you should find a few you can actually go with, e.g. the drive is not too far to pick up and return the car, or you're ok with delivery fees.
3) Schedule test drives with BMW dealers nearby. They will only give you their best deals if you test drive. Counter-intuitive but true.
4) Hopefully by the time you test drive, you get some decent offers from the brokers, and can present them to your dealers. You’ll see if any of them are motivated enough to offer you a deal.

Worth it?
I did all that while still deciding which car and configuration I wanted, so didn’t really spend much extra time. But if this all sounds like too much work for a few thousand dollars of discount - maybe it is, for you. Everyone is always free to pay any price they want and be happy with the car, and the price is surely not the only factor. Build timeline, trade-in value, time spent, relationship with the dealership, fees, positive and negative extras, and other factors also matter. I personally hate the car buying process, but find it helps me master my negotiation skills. In addition, getting this kind of deal was essential for me to consider BMW - it would be too much outside of my target budget otherwise.

 If you’re trying to understand if a dealer is giving you a good deal - plug the numbers in Leasehackr calculator and see what payment you’re supposed to get with the canonical best terms, and/or the terms they're offering. If something looks way off, dealer/broker is probably trying to hide something.

Where do you select state and car maker on https://forum.leasehackr.com/? Do you go to the "Marketplace" category, then select your region at the top, then select "BMW" in the tags drop-down, and look for topics with activity with in the last month?

[mf44]

Originally Posted by javapro

Where do you select state and car maker on https://forum.leasehackr.com/? Do you go to the "Marketplace" category, then select your region at the top, then select "BMW" in the tags drop-down, and look for topics with activity with in the last month?

Yes, that's the best way to find brokers in your region on LH.

[javapro]

Originally Posted by ilya4min

Here's the leasehackr calculator for the deal described above. Selling price would be 108K for 120K MSRP. Looks like the tax rate is different, it actually depends on the county IIUC.

I ended up going with a different deal at Peter Pan BMW after Air Suspension came back as an option. It's marginally higher than the 10% off buy rate deal, but not enough that I care.

Thank you. Very helpful.. I assume you went with xDrive50 in stead of M60?

[ilya4min]

Originally Posted by javapro

Thank you. Very helpful.. I assume you went with xDrive50 in stead of M60?

Yep, went with the 50, this was the configuration I originally wanted, but couldn't get due to Air Suspension option unavailability. BMW was great with their timing adding the option back!

[nechi]

🤓

[NOVA99]

Discounting the F out EV’s already. And it’s beginning…

Long Live V8’s and Diesels. 😎