[FultonMDUSA]

https://electrek.co/2023/09/01/tesla...us-tax-credit/

This is nuts. Last summer, the iX was priced between the Tesla Model Y and Model X, which made sense in that size wise, the iX was larger than a Y and smaller than an X.

Now the X is priced significantly less expensive than the iX.

[Young04]

I will probably never get a Tesla, but with all of these price drops, complaints like cheap interior ring more hollow.

[exxxviii]

This is seismic to the premium market. The iX is $20K more than its comparable X5 counterpart. It is probably $10K to $15K overpriced. The one thing making the iX price seem reasonable was the formerly-absurd Model X price. The Lyriq and GV70 sit squarely in the new Model X price bracket and now the iX is $15K more expensive (for a similarly-equipped car).

I wonder if BMW will increase the incentives or lower the price in response?

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

This is seismic to the premium market. The iX is $20K more than its comparable X5 counterpart.

I feel that you are concluding that based on comparing the entry price of a iX xdrive 50 and a X5 xdrive 40i. To me, the proper comparison is to compare a similarly equipped ix50 and a X5 M60i; that brings the power/performance levels to a similar point to compare properly. I just did it on the US site with similar equipment and ended up with the iX only about 3k more expensive MSRP.

[sor]

With cuts that deep they must be really hurting to sell them all.

Almost gives you an appreciation for the dealer model where the MSRP can stay stable and they give you these cuts via dealer incentives, etc. on specific models to clear inventory. Probably helps resale and perception a bit at least.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

I feel that you are concluding that based on comparing the entry price of a iX xdrive 50 and a X5 xdrive 40i. To me, the proper comparison is to compare a similarly equipped ix50 and a X5 M60i; that brings the power/performance levels to a similar point to compare properly. I just did it on the US site with similar equipment and ended up with the iX only about 3k more expensive MSRP.

Yes, I did an X5 xDrive40i build exactly like I would want and would order. That comes to $77K. The exactly same build of an iX xDrive50 is $95K. Those two represent the way the market would likely view the two, and probably how BMW markets them. I don't think it makes sense to attempt to simply use power or acceleration as the singular criteria for matching, because BEV is incomparable to ICE in that regard. Other legacy automakers price their similarly equipped ICE & BEV offerings $5K to $10K apart.

The X5 M60i equipped the way I would order it comes in at $95K, and this compares against the $114K iX M60.

[Pictor]

There may be price pressure on BMW but I don't think BMW cares about comparing the price of a Toyota Camry with a BMW 5-Series. And that's some of the rub here. The Model X and Y have been seen as luxury brands but they lack many features that customers of luxury brands have expected.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by sor

With cuts that deep they must be really hurting to sell them all.

Originally Posted by Pictor

The Model X and Y have been seen as luxury brands but they lack many features that customers of luxury brands have expected.

Tesla is outselling BMW, M-B, etc. in that premium BEV price bracket. The Model X is more popular than any other ~$100K SUV/CUV. They will likely set massive sales records in 2023 with these two while taking BEV sales away from the others automakers.

I am so glad I leased.

[birdman76]

Interestingly, it seems that the estimated lease deal is still worse for the Model X vs the going rate for the iX (comparing ix50 to base and M60 to Plaid using the Tesla calculator). Rather than huge incentives and discounts, BMW should really just adjust the purchase price to avoid sticker shock keeping new customers away.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

Tesla is outselling BMW, M-B, etc. in that premium BEV price bracket. The Model X is more popular than any other ~$100K SUV/CUV. They will likely set massive sales records in 2023 with these two while taking BEV sales away from the others automakers.

I am so glad I leased.

Take this with a grain a salt but according to this site, BMW iX has been outselling the model X in the US...
https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/bmw/ix

How many Model X did Tesla sell in 2023?
Tesla sold 6,001 Model X in 2023. (From Jan - Jul 2023)

How many iX did BMW sell in 2023?
BMW sold 6,485 iX in 2023. (From Jan - Jul 2023)

And from a recent AutoBlog article from Aug 29th...
On the used car side of the house, the 10 slowest-selling vehicles are:
Buick Enclave: 64.3 days
Chrysler 300: 64.7
Chevrolet Blazer: 65.9
Land Rover Range Rover: 68.4
Tesla Model X: 71.4
Cadillac XT4: 71.9
Land Rover Discovery Sport: 73.6
Ford Mustang Mach-E: 75.8
Buick Envision: 82.3
Tesla Model S: 88.3

[VirtualGuitars]

I’m so glad I didn’t buy one of these for so many reasons. After reading this post, I would have been pissed if I had bought one because they were about $150K when equipped with full service driving, upgraded wheels, interior, and paint. Now it would be $110K! And this was only 8 months ago.

With that being said, my iX M60 has dropped it’s value by $40,000 in only 8 months with only 2,500 miles, so there’s that! This is a great time to lease an iX.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by Pictor

Take this with a grain a salt but according to this site, BMW iX has been outselling the model X in the US...
https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/bmw/ix

How many Model X did Tesla sell in 2023?
Tesla sold 6,001 Model X in 2023. (From Jan - Jul 2023)

How many iX did BMW sell in 2023?
BMW sold 6,485 iX in 2023. (From Jan - Jul 2023)

I was using this site for US sales. Model X crushed iX through June. iX probably made up some ground in July & August with the incentives. But this cut might erase that advantage going forward. GoodCarBadCar has 12K Model X sales through June. This would align with their 2022 total sales of 24K.
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2023-u...ures-by-model/

[quasar81]

Plaid under 90k is something….

Bought iX last year and now waiting for BMW to drop prices. iX much better than X though. Did back to back test drive in both before buying. Still, iX price drop will my hurt feelings 😀

[Road Trip]

I have never leased anything in my life until my iX. Leasing never fit in emotionally to my value of the own-it-outright mentality, but times have changed especially for electric vehicles — and as I am not a dinosaur I am changing along with them. With the current iX lease rebate and doing a one-pay lease, that combo reduced my pricing by over $11K. As the end of my 36 month lease, who knows with the battery advancements that we all believe BMW will announce next week at Munich, perhaps when I get my ix M60 replacement when my lease is over, the replacement then will have 450 mile or more range.

As for Tesla, my daughter loves her second one, and perhaps she will now buy the just announced Model 3 replacement which loves — but not for me.

Nice we each have choices.

[cyber2142]

Waiting for iX50 (MSRP 100K) lease delivery. Expected early October.

I would have jumped if I could get 75K federal credit on X, but not for me. Lease deal is bad.

I hope iX deal gets even better in reaction to this. Wouldn't help me if dealer discount or MSRP drops I think. If incentive, MF, changes favorably, maybe....

Do I just lose broker fee if I decide to walk away from the deal in the case?

[ApplePhy]

Originally Posted by birdman76

Interestingly, it seems that the estimated lease deal is still worse for the Model X vs the going rate for the iX (comparing ix50 to base and M60 to Plaid using the Tesla calculator). Rather than huge incentives and discounts, BMW should really just adjust the purchase price to avoid sticker shock keeping new customers away.

EXACTLY.

most buyers in this segment lease. so who cares if model X is $90k, $80k, $70k even. what matters is how well these cars lease out.

and TESLAS ARE HORRIBLE in this regard. they must mark up their money factors quite a bit.

for the uninformed shopper, sure $81k model x SEEMS more attractive than a $98k BMW ix, but in this exact scenario my payment is $420 a month CHEAPER than the Tesla. which means tesla's profit margins have not changed one bit despite 'discounting' the vehicle by $15,000.

very sneaky in my opinion.

[sor]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

I was using this site for US sales. Model X crushed iX through June. iX probably made up some ground in July & August with the incentives. But this cut might erase that advantage going forward. GoodCarBadCar has 12K Model X sales through June. This would align with their 2022 total sales of 24K.
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2023-u...ures-by-model/

Right but that’s kind of shifting the goalposts, it isn’t about total sales and who is selling more than who, the price cut is about how many are sitting in the lot.

Tesla is used to having an order backlog and now they have reported surplus vehicles for months. Given their inflated stock price, it looks bad to have sales that aren’t eternally growing exponentially.

[sor]

Originally Posted by exxxviii

Yes, I did an X5 xDrive40i build exactly like I would want and would order. That comes to $77K. The exactly same build of an iX xDrive50 is $95K. Those two represent the way the market would likely view the two, and probably how BMW markets them.

When I cross shop, one of the first things I compare is 0-60 time to get an idea if I’m comparing vehicles in the same ballpark. That’s just me, though.

[Pictor]

For those who lease, I'm sure we all understand what I mean when I say the monthly payment means very little. Leasing is a great solution especially if you like to swap cars every few years and have a good idea of how many miles you drive.

Red flags are:
- focusing only on the monthly payment amount (sales folks love this though)
- putting down a large amount down for cap cost reduction (you're unlikely to get any of that back in the case of an accident that results in a total loss).

In many states, you don't pay tax on the full value of the car when you lease but you pay a use tax on the portion of the vehicle that you lease. This can save you thousands if you change your car often. The important factor is the MF and the residual. Residual values on EVs suck compared to ICE (BMW included). That will change in time but we're not there yet.

The benefit to a lease is that you know up front what your car will be worth at the end of the term. You can buy out the car or walk away from it at the end, assuming you cared for the car. That and possible tax benefits to a lease but this varies by your personal situation.

I haven't looked at T* leases recently but I have in the past and their lease rates were not attractive. Similar to Audi, they seem to want to push the traditional sale vs. trying to get someone into a lease. For my own daily drivers, I've only leased for a long time simply because I tend to want to get into a new car by about year two and I use the remaining 12 months to shop for my next ride.

[exxxviii]

Originally Posted by sor

Right but that’s kind of shifting the goalposts, it isn’t about total sales and who is selling more than who, the price cut is about how many are sitting in the lot.

Tesla is used to having an order backlog and now they have reported surplus vehicles for months. Given their inflated stock price, it looks bad to have sales that aren’t eternally growing exponentially.

I don't think it is shifting the goal posts at all. The response was to who was selling the most cars. Objectively Tesla is selling the most cars, by a lot. Apart from that, Tesla has always had lean on-ground inventory with a small backlog. I do not think that has changed materially in 2023 relative to 2022. But in just a few hours, they did eliminate existing inventory and generated a healthy order backlog again. Looks like they will sell a crapton more than they did in 2022.

Cross-shopping between ICE and BEV based primarily on 0-60 times to argue an equivalency is definitely moving the goal posts. When you compare other manufacture equivalent ICE to BEV models, the difference is $5K to $10K. BMW is about $20K.

[BMWamped]

Originally Posted by FultonMDUSA

https://electrek.co/2023/09/01/tesla...us-tax-credit/

This is nuts. Last summer, the iX was priced between the Tesla Model Y and Model X, which made sense in that size wise, the iX was larger than a Y and smaller than an X.

Now the X is priced significantly less expensive than the iX.

They really know how to shaft their existing customer base. All they care about is the stock price.

Also maybe they are getting ready for a redesign? The price cuts are massive. But if you can live with cheap interior material, rattles, panel gaps, lack of service centers, and a computer monitor in front of your eyes then this is the right time to buy Tesla

[BMWEVGuy]

Originally Posted by Pictor

There may be price pressure on BMW but I don't think BMW cares about comparing the price of a Toyota Camry with a BMW 5-Series. And that's some of the rub here. The Model X and Y have been seen as luxury brands but they lack many features that customers of luxury brands have expected.

You are missing the point other than some people like us on this forum most people out there don't consider Model X == Camry. Even strategist at BMW would be naive and stupid to do that.

It won't be hard for these guys at Tesla to update their cars -- see Model 3 as an example. As a EV buyer I can see that Tesla gives an electric eco system -- from solar powered home panels, Tesla's home charger, Tesla Super Charger network and then their car. In the EV world they have thought about customers better.

Most Tesla customers (at least on the both Coast of US) go around without range anxiety. Something which a BMW guy can only dream of.

BMW like many other EV makers came up with this uber expensive iX without thinking anything about charging network on the go. They still are unwilling to join NACS standard in the US.

I have more respect for Mercedes who after Tesla are the second automaker to offer Charging experience to their customers by launching their own charge stations.