[Road Trip]

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Extremely interesting interview with Frank Weber, BMW’s head of R&D with WardsAuto. What does this mean for changing the front “face”/appearance of new models? Does this mean that BMW is acknowledging that Tech changes will be introduced more frequently, e.g., even major ones not waiting until the next ”model?” Is the seven cycle model replacement cycle no more?

Originally Posted by WardsAuto

‘Techlifts’ (Not Facelifts) in BMW’s New Klasse Future combustion isn’t dead, but electrics are the future and BMW’s R&D chief Frank Weber is balancing the two propulsion systems while charging full-speed ahead with technologies embodied in the Neue Klasse concept.
Greg Kable | Dec 12, 2023

Frank Weber’s career spans more than three decades as an engineer at Adam Opel, General Motors and, since 2011, at BMW where he now serves as head of global R&D and is a member of the BMW management board. WardsAuto spoke with Weber about the Neue Klasse and its implications for BMW’s future.

Wards: The Neue Klasse introduces a new modular electric platform that is planned to form the basis of up to six new electric-powered BMW models before 2030. What are the key elements of the new structure?
Weber: We are in a phase where flexibility is required. We have to detach ourselves from how we have perceived platforms up to now. There is an increasing realization that the art of mastering diversity in your portfolio lies in how you use and network major components –engines, motors, battery cells, on-board computers, control units, app functions and software upgrades. It is not so much the platform structure itself, but the individual components and how you use them. That is the Neue Klasse.
Wards: Is it important to replace every BMW or remain in all current segments together with electric variants?
Weber: We are firmly convinced that our strength in conventional internal-combustion-engine models together with the developments that we have in store for our next generation of electric models will lead to further growth for BMW.
Wards: So rumors about BMW abandoning the ICE completely are not true?
Weber: It’s complete nonsense. Firstly, it’s not true. And secondly, suggesting that there’s nothing more to be done in this field is not true, either.
Wards: BMW has an illustrious history of high-revving ICE development and production. How do you convince customers that an electric motor is the better choice?
Weber: It’s very precise. Much smoother than a combustion engine, which still can feel a bit clumsy due to turbocharging. An electric motor regulates incredibly finely. We’ve managed to harness this in combination with the chassis systems to take the driving experience of electric cars to the next level.
Wards: BMW claims new models based on the Neue Klasse platform will have 30% more range, offer 30% faster charging and be 25% more efficient than its existing electric models. How, specifically?
Weber: It is not only the electric motor that contributes to efficiency. It is the entire system – all components and what we call secondary effects like weight, aerodynamics and rolling resistance. Just an example: A current BMW with a real-world range of around 400 km (249 miles) will achieve a range of 500 km (311 miles) or more – with an identical battery size. We’ve always said the answer can’t be to make ever larger batteries.
Wards: The Neue Klasse concept showcases a new central computer/controller that BMW calls the “Heart of Joy.” What’s so special about it and what does its inception mean for future models?
Weber: It is nothing less than BMW’s DNA, encompassing everything related to driving dynamics and powertrain, providing the basis for how the drivetrain and the chassis interact and perform. It operates way faster than today’s systems. When we started development, we quickly realized the concept is great. What we weren’t really banking on was the potential. It is a game changer.
Wards: BMW is renowned for instilling its production models with an intrinsically sporting driving character. Will this be evident in upcoming electric models?
Weber: There was a long discussion exactly around this particular character with the Neue Klasse. We concluded our customers don’t want just a computer on wheels. They want a digitally competent product, but they don’t want a computer on wheels. A car is a highly emotional relationship you enter into.
Wards: The Neue Klasse concept previews a radical shift in interior design with a focus on minimalism. What is the thinking here?
Weber: We don’t see it as minimalism. We see it as a refinement of operations. People laughed at us when we introduced the iDrive controller more than two decades ago. But we said, “That’s how it should be.” We made it an industry benchmark. What we’re doing in the future with the Neue Klasse is starting with something we’ve already developed to a very high standard and making it better. The crucial thing is the access to each individual function.
Wards: ICE models from BMW have traditionally progressed along seven-year cycles with a midcycle facelift at the halfway point. Do you perceive this continuing in the future?
Weber: The facelift is no more. We’ve moved on. It’s actually a techlift. Digital connectivity and electric mobility open up a whole new realm in how we progress models in the future. Over-the-air updates will come regularly. So much is happening here. One of the challenges is managing how they are rolled out.

https://www.wardsauto.com/vehicles/t...-klasse-future

[NomoTesla]

Tesla has ruined the world, I'm afraid. Death by a thousand updates for everyone!

[VirtualGuitars]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Tesla has ruined the world, I'm afraid. Death by a thousand updates for everyone!

100%

[bayernhoosier]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Tesla has ruined the world, I'm afraid. Death by a thousand updates for everyone!

Tesla in the automotive world but that was Sillicon Valley for a long time. It’s just that Germans didn’t see the reading on the wall that they have to spin themselves into tech companies. This has been years in the making. There is a reason why people have used their phones for navigation for years now, instead of relying on the built in maps.

[MT6]

Over the air updates keeps the smartphone generation engaged with the car and the brand.

iD8 needs updates for apple & android car plays and not sure if BMW is including engine ECU optimization

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by bayernhoosier

Tesla in the automotive world but that was Sillicon Valley for a long time. It’s just that Germans didn’t see the reading on the wall that they have to spin themselves into tech companies. This has been years in the making. There is a reason why people have used their phones for navigation for years now, instead of relying on the built in maps.

Agreed, but that has little to do with the war on physical controls. I will blame Tesla indefinitely for the “blandifying” of automotive interiors.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by MT6

Over the air updates keeps the smartphone generation engaged with the car and the Brand.

As if the automobile is no longer a car for driving, it’s an entertainment capsule to pass time in while charging.

[Tag]

Seems like he conflated the question regarding facelifts with OTA updates. You can apply all the software updates you want, that won't change the styling of the car. People will always want something 'Neue'. Facelifts aren't going anywhere, no matter what they call them going forward.

[MT6]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

As if the automobile is no longer a car for driving, it’s an entertainment capsule to pass time in while charging.

I have stopped listening to music while driving too many screen touches required in iD8

It is crazy and with the Generative AI wonder what change that would be for cars

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by NomoTesla

Tesla has ruined the world, I'm afraid. Death by a thousand updates for everyone!

Except that if you lived with it, and it's done well, it's brilliant. From Dec 2018 to Dec 2020, my model 3(s) got so many features added as updates. Some were Elon jokes, yes, but some were extremely useful. The entire functionality of Sentry mode: added OTA. Dog mode: OTA. Turn on cameras when turning on the turn signal: OTA. Braking performance, range optimization, faster 0-60 times: all OTA. YouTube, Netflix, games, Spotify...all added OTA.

It's not all fart noises and caraoke. Although those things are fun. But the actual real world functionality of my car increased. Actual value was added.

For free.

I say up to Dec 2020 because that's when they started really following Elon's BS and going backwards. Completely re-did the display so that there was enough room for the FSD (Farce Self Driving) layout, shrinking the speedometer readout and the energy bar. And more. Between then and Dec 2022 when I got rid of it, the meaningful features added were maybe 20% of the preceeding 2 years.

This was for free. Likely BMW won't be as alturistic. But wouldn't you love to have additional functionality added to the car at low or minimal cost AFTER you purchased it? Without having to go to a dealer, make any mess or alter your warranty?

Why WOULDN"T you want the updates?

Originally Posted by MT6

I have stopped listening to music while driving too many screen touches required in iD8

It is crazy and with the Generative AI wonder what change that would be for cars

I find it pretty easy to navigate using the wheel buttons or the iDrive controller.

[MT6]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I find it pretty easy to navigate using the wheel buttons or the iDrive controller.

I need to learn the iDrive controller have never used it.

[GabesSlowM4]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Why WOULDN"T you want the updates?

I feel like for the vast majority of the general public over the air updates are brilliant as they use their car for everyday things. Enthusiasts who enjoy cars for modding and building don't like it because it complicates modding. i.e having to send the DME out to unlock/tune. In addition having a blackbox to track driving history leaves a bad taste in some peoples mouth. Again for the 90% of people who buy modern vehicles this is not an issue. Just for the 10% of hobbyists.

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by MT6

I need to learn the iDrive controller have never used it.

Alrighty then...

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by GabesSlowM4

I feel like for the vast majority of the general public over the air updates are brilliant as they use their car for everyday things. Enthusiasts who enjoy cars for modding and building don't like it because it complicates modding. i.e having to send the DME out to unlock/tune. In addition having a blackbox to track driving history leaves a bad taste in some peoples mouth. Again for the 90% of people who buy modern vehicles this is not an issue. Just for the 10% of hobbyists.

I consider this a hobbyist who is modding his car. Yes, it causes issues with unlocked ECU's and is a pain if you are coding features onto your car.

The driving history...yes. I can see that as well. But that is a battle we are all facing, OTA's or not. Manufacturers see that data is gold to sell to marketers and they intend on mining it to the fullest. But again...you don't need a car which will do OTA's to do that. Even OnStar would have had those records, decades ago.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Except that if you lived with it, and it's done well, it's brilliant. From Dec 2018 to Dec 2020, my model 3(s) got so many features added as updates. Some were Elon jokes, yes, but some were extremely useful. The entire functionality of Sentry mode: added OTA. Dog mode: OTA. Turn on cameras when turning on the turn signal: OTA. Braking performance, range optimization, faster 0-60 times: all OTA. YouTube, Netflix, games, Spotify...all added OTA.

It's not all fart noises and caraoke. Although those things are fun. But the actual real world functionality of my car increased. Actual value was added.

For free.

I say up to Dec 2020 because that's when they started really following Elon's BS and going backwards. Completely re-did the display so that there was enough room for the FSD (Farce Self Driving) layout, shrinking the speedometer readout and the energy bar. And more. Between then and Dec 2022 when I got rid of it, the meaningful features added were maybe 20% of the preceeding 2 years.

This was for free. Likely BMW won't be as alturistic. But wouldn't you love to have additional functionality added to the car at low or minimal cost AFTER you purchased it? Without having to go to a dealer, make any mess or alter your warranty?

Why WOULDN"T you want the updates?




I find it pretty easy to navigate using the wheel buttons or the iDrive controller.

You are spinning exactly how they would want you to. IMHO you need to look at things more critically. You didn't get anything for free. You paid for it upfront. Just like BMWs don't come with "free" service and maintenance for 3 or 4 years when we buy new or lease, we pay for it in the price of the vehicle.

And why wouldn't someone want the updates? Because there inevitably comes a time when an update does something to the UI that you won't like. Functions you like can be removed, things moved around and made more difficult/annoying to use, and importantly, performance of the UI will tend to suffer over time (ask any original model S owner who updated their car how that worked out for them). There are ways to avoid most of those downsides but no-one, including BMW seems to do that perfectly when they chose to provide updates. BMW avoids the performance issues by not overdoing it and not offering new major versions to hardware that wasn't made to handle it (like 8.5 on the iXs built before the new head unit) but they have still pushed updates that have annoyed me (i.e. coupling the radiant heating with heated seats in the iX, removing the web browser in my X4, etc.) and I wish I had the choice to leave it as it was before.

[JK479]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Agreed, but that has little to do with the war on physical controls. I will blame Tesla indefinitely for the “blandifying” of automotive interiors.

It’s cost savings. I blame BMW seeing that as an opportunity.

[mckman]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

You are spinning exactly how they would want you to. IMHO you need to look at things more critically. You didn't get anything for free. You paid for it upfront. Just like BMWs don't come with "free" service and maintenance for 3 or 4 years when we buy new or lease, we pay for it in the price of the vehicle.

And why wouldn't someone want the updates? Because there inevitably comes a time when an update does something to the UI that you won't like. Functions you like can be removed, things moved around and made more difficult/annoying to use, and importantly, performance of the UI will tend to suffer over time (ask any original model S owner who updated their car how that worked out for them). There are ways to avoid most of those downsides but no-one, including BMW seems to do that perfectly when they chose to provide updates. BMW avoids the performance issues by not overdoing it and not offering new major versions to hardware that wasn't made to handle it (like 8.5 on the iXs built before the new head unit) but they have still pushed updates that have annoyed me (i.e. coupling the radiant heating with heated seats in the iX, removing the web browser in my X4, etc.) and I wish I had the choice to leave it as it was before.

Well said.

You get the benefits of "updates", but you lose some control of your car as well. You have implicitly agreed to let the company manage it for you. Great if you like the changes they make, but maybe you don't. What rights do you have if you don't accept the updates. Do you lose support?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ggalanis

You are spinning exactly how they would want you to. IMHO you need to look at things more critically. You didn't get anything for free. You paid for it upfront. Just like BMWs don't come with "free" service and maintenance for 3 or 4 years when we buy new or lease, we pay for it in the price of the vehicle.

And why wouldn't someone want the updates? Because there inevitably comes a time when an update does something to the UI that you won't like. Functions you like can be removed, things moved around and made more difficult/annoying to use, and importantly, performance of the UI will tend to suffer over time (ask any original model S owner who updated their car how that worked out for them). There are ways to avoid most of those downsides but no-one, including BMW seems to do that perfectly when they chose to provide updates. BMW avoids the performance issues by not overdoing it and not offering new major versions to hardware that wasn't made to handle it (like 8.5 on the iXs built before the new head unit) but they have still pushed updates that have annoyed me (i.e. coupling the radiant heating with heated seats in the iX, removing the web browser in my X4, etc.) and I wish I had the choice to leave it as it was before.

I mean, you could look at it that way for sure. But, again, when was the last time any car manufacturer gave you functionality AFTER you bought the car. For free?

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I mean, you could look at it that way for sure. But, again, when was the last time any car manufacturer gave you functionality AFTER you bought the car. For free?

BMW delivered Android Auto for "free" months after I bought my X5 in 2019 via a software update. But I'm not foolish enough to think it was a gift from BMW.

[siegester]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I mean, you could look at it that way for sure. But, again, when was the last time any car manufacturer gave you functionality AFTER you bought the car. For free?

My 2020 G20. bMW added Carplay, Android Auto, improved driving assist and more apps They also removed features that were part of my purchase excitement and thus pissed me off (using my Android phone as a key)

[Blue Angel]

Why wouldn’t you want OTA updates? Because it means someone else has control over your autonomy. It’s being normalized now under the guise of convenience, but in a not-too-distant future it will give others control.

There’s already serious public talk of putting breathalyzers in cars to eliminate drunk driving. Seems fine on the surface, right? Well, it’s a clever way of giving an Authority the ability to remotely immobilize your car, and therefore you.

Crank up your insurance rates, too, as the car knows you’re driving (facial recognition, digital ID) and knows how you’re driving, where and when you’re driving, and who else is in your car.

Autonomous vehicles? They can be programmed to not allow you to go places, or programmed to take you to certain places.

This is all coming under the guise of convenience and safety. All you have to do is give little pieces of your independence away, one at a time, so slowly you won’t even realize you’re doing it.

Musk isn’t actively building a vehicular surveillance system, but he is assembling the hard/software the Authorities can mandate be used against you.

“I’ll just keep driving my old car then!”

That works until you can’t get insurance for that car. It’s coming whether we like it or not, but I’d rather not be an “early adopter”, funding the R&D and supporting public acceptance.

[Tallest]

I think if BMW does it right, i.e. manages to price it all properly and not create a car experience similar to what F2P games do, it will be ok.

Im not a fan of car facelifts tweaking headlights to look from one type of vegetable shape to another...

But this idea stated above how it is all built up to have surveillance over the driver - indeed Im not a fan of that. That will be tested first in China though...