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      03-09-2024, 09:39 AM   #1
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NY Times: BMW Is a Surprise Winner in Electric Vehicles

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The below article was published today (03/09/2024). The article is entitled BMW Is a Surprise Winner in Electric Vehicles and is on the front page of the website this morning. The article probably does not include much that is new to the readers of this forum, but it's worth a read. Most or all on this forum would agree that the iX is a winner. My wife loves her iX M60.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/09/b...-vehicles.html
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      03-09-2024, 10:25 AM   #2
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I just read it on the NYT site and was about to post it. Yes, it is worth the read.
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      03-09-2024, 10:48 AM   #3
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BMW Is a Surprise Winner in Electric Vehicles

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/09/b...smid=url-share
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      03-09-2024, 11:31 AM   #4
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Excellent article!
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      03-10-2024, 03:50 PM   #5
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NYT: BMW Is a Surprise Winner in Electric Vehicles

"Once considered a laggard, the German luxury carmaker is one of only a few established automakers that has been able to compete effectively against Tesla."

NYT article talking about BMW's EV adaptation strategy.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/09/b...20this%20story.
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      03-10-2024, 03:56 PM   #6
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BMW Suprise Winner!

100% agree!
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      03-11-2024, 10:35 AM   #7
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When Model 3 was designed, Tesla took square aim at the BMW 3-series. When the Model 3 was launched, its driving dynamics (which sucked balls) were compared to the BMW 3 series and squarely lost. Now that BMW has an electric 4 series, I don't know why anyone would buy a Model 3. All the Youtube bobbleheads are proclaiming how quiet the new Highland Model 3 is, and wow it has ambient lighting! Oh and the Cybertruck has rear-wheel steering which Teslarati has proclaimed as a "game changer".

These things are "game changers" only to Tesla fanboys/girls who have only ever driven a car in a video game. Rear-wheel steering has been available for decades as has ambient lighting and a quiet interior. You just have to move up to a real automobile manufacturer and not buy your car from a software company that can't decide what it wants to be.

Stop comparing and just go to the source! lol
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      03-11-2024, 10:40 AM   #8
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nice article. saw it on the site as well. Fast on the post OP!
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      03-11-2024, 10:42 AM   #9
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I am boycotting Tesla for other reasons, besides mentioned here. Let's leave it at that.
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      03-11-2024, 10:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by ArnoPCB View Post
I am boycotting Tesla for other reasons, besides mentioned here. Let's leave it at that.
You and I may have similar reasons. #nevertesla
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      03-11-2024, 11:28 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by NomoTesla View Post
You and I may have similar reasons. #nevertesla
Add me to this mindset #plus3
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      03-11-2024, 12:23 PM   #12
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Tesla has a clear and distinct advantage of being the first to really nail a mass production electric car, and that advantage will take a long time to disappear. That said, when a manufacturer like BMW (and Porsche for that matter) that understands what drivers want really commits to electric car production, I'm going to trust that more. The article mentions how some see the fact that the cars are visually indistinguishable from their ICE counterparts as a bad thing, but most of us see it as a good thing.

I'm not ready to move on from ICE vehicles, and suspect that I'll be keeping my current M4 for a long while, but BMW definitely makes the most attractive EVs on the market right now when all things are considered.
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      03-11-2024, 12:29 PM   #13
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The first year depreciation on my wife’s Tesla model Y -which was purchased since Tesla lease deals are uncompetitive - is approximately equal to the lease payment in my iX m60. What would you choose?
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      03-11-2024, 02:25 PM   #14
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Price is a big factor here in Tesla’s continued dominance in this space.

The i4 is simply in a different price category than the Model 3. The $10-15k differential matters a significant amount to people shopping in this price bracket.

No argument that the i4 is screwed together significantly better than the model 3, and just all around a better car (Tesla charging not withstanding), but Tesla will continue to sell the 3 in droves in comparison.

Unless BMW comes out with an i2 (or whatever) that matches the model 3 in price, they’ll continue to be more of a niche player here. i4 would be one of my choices if I were in the market for a mid-ish level electric appliance runabout, and not the 3, but I can see how the 3 appeals to an entire crowd of people where it may be the single biggest/coolest/bang for the buck purchase in their entire lives outside of their home.

The same goes for Model Y. Its actually a solid option in the $45-55k category.

iX vs Model X is another conversation, as there are more competitors in this space nowadays and Tesla would be far down my list of contenders. Rivian may be my #1 here. They’re just cool.
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      03-11-2024, 03:57 PM   #15
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Kudos to BMW. I just recently went the other direction and picked up an R1S quad motor. I'm sure the BMW's handle better then the Rivian but if only BMW could make the EV's less ermm, polarizing I might cross shop them in the future.
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      03-11-2024, 04:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angeloalain View Post
For the 2023 m4 convertible:

2. what’s a good sun shade for the windshield because i can’t seem to find any for my specific model
Try a BMW E92 sun shade. It works well for both my F82 and E24 coupe.
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      03-11-2024, 04:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NomoTesla View Post
When Model 3 was designed, Tesla took square aim at the BMW 3-series. When the Model 3 was launched, its driving dynamics (which sucked balls) were compared to the BMW 3 series and squarely lost. Now that BMW has an electric 4 series, I don't know why anyone would buy a Model 3. All the Youtube bobbleheads are proclaiming how quiet the new Highland Model 3 is, and wow it has ambient lighting! Oh and the Cybertruck has rear-wheel steering which Teslarati has proclaimed as a "game changer".

These things are "game changers" only to Tesla fanboys/girls who have only ever driven a car in a video game. Rear-wheel steering has been available for decades as has ambient lighting and a quiet interior. You just have to move up to a real automobile manufacturer and not buy your car from a software company that can't decide what it wants to be.

Stop comparing and just go to the source! lol
Great points. As comedian Ronnie Chieng would say, the Teslarati need to “get in the back of the class.”
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      03-11-2024, 04:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NomoTesla View Post
When Model 3 was designed, Tesla took square aim at the BMW 3-series. When the Model 3 was launched, its driving dynamics (which sucked balls) were compared to the BMW 3 series and squarely lost.
This reminds of me of a somewhat famous quote from BMW many years ago. In one of their "best car" articles, one of the auto magazines asked BMW why they thought their 3 Series dominated, and the BMW person gave a very thoughtful response. (As best of I can remember) he said "well, everyone is aiming at us, but we are aiming at the Porsche 911."

I don't think any other sedan has come close to the BMW 3 Series performance and driving dynamics. BMW even shared their product strategy with the world, and they still win.

It is no sin to fall short of a BMW 3 Series; it’s actually quite normal. BMW has owned this category outright for four decades.
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      03-11-2024, 05:43 PM   #19
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Two thoughts:

1. Why does anyone consider Tesla a luxury brand? The model 3/Y make up 96% of their sales. They're about as plebeian as it gets, with low quality interior materials, more rattles than a snake, no CarPlay, and a suspension designed to fracture your spine. Even the S and X aren't really passable as "luxury" vehicles, given their terrible fit and finish. But hey. They make fart noises. Yay Tesla.

2. I'm amazed that the automotive media continues to ignore just now outstanding Highway Assistant is. It gets 1/1000 the press that autopilot gets. I lived with a Tesla for 6 miserable months, and autopilot is OKAY, but the amount of attention it gets from media and the public is wildly disproportionate to the middling functionality it actually provides. Highway Assistant works better WITHOUT HANDS!! SuperCruise does as well. I haven't tried Nissan's ProPilot 2.0 or BlueCruise, but I've read poor reviews. Highway Assistant (and SuperCruise) feel like an equally enormous step forward in the personal transportation experience as BEV vehicles generally, yet few seem to care...
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      03-11-2024, 06:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbluedevil View Post
1. Why does anyone consider Tesla a luxury brand? The model 3/Y make up 96% of their sales. They're about as plebeian as it gets, with low quality interior materials, more rattles than a snake, no CarPlay, and a suspension designed to fracture your spine. Even the S and X aren't really passable as "luxury" vehicles, given their terrible fit and finish. But hey. They make fart noises. Yay Tesla.
Luxury is not just expensive materials you can feel. Luxury has also always been about controls. Let's pick one feature, say seat heaters. An entry level vehicle might have the driver's seat heated. A mid tier would add the passenger seat. A luxury tier the rear seats. A major cost would be the physical switches and wiring for each seat. When you eliminate physical switches (such as with the Tesla interface), now you can automate/control/heat every seat, at much less cost than a traditional vehicle with individual switches and wiring. Tesla does this with virtually every control, the result being that the number of controllable features in a Tesla are comparable to much more upscale vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbluedevil View Post
2. I'm amazed that the automotive media continues to ignore just now outstanding Highway Assistant is. It gets 1/1000 the press that autopilot gets. I lived with a Tesla for 6 miserable months, and autopilot is OKAY, but the amount of attention it gets from media and the public is wildly disproportionate to the middling functionality it actually provides. Highway Assistant works better WITHOUT HANDS!! SuperCruise does as well. I haven't tried Nissan's ProPilot 2.0 or BlueCruise, but I've read poor reviews. Highway Assistant (and SuperCruise) feel like an equally enormous step forward in the personal transportation experience as BEV vehicles generally, yet few seem to care...
Hands free under very limited conditions and roads is only impressive if a lot of your driving is under those conditions and on those roads.

Additionally, the Tesla Autopilot and FSD get improved regularly with new features pushed out to vehicles that are even several years old. BMW doesn't do that at all. Well they promised it to us iDrive 8 folks, but apparently later decided what we bought is what we will only ever get.
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      03-11-2024, 07:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbluedevil View Post
Two thoughts:

1. Why does anyone consider Tesla a luxury brand? The model 3/Y make up 96% of their sales. They're about as plebeian as it gets, with low quality interior materials, more rattles than a snake, no CarPlay, and a suspension designed to fracture your spine. Even the S and X aren't really passable as "luxury" vehicles, given their terrible fit and finish. But hey. They make fart noises. Yay Tesla.

2. I'm amazed that the automotive media continues to ignore just now outstanding Highway Assistant is. It gets 1/1000 the press that autopilot gets. I lived with a Tesla for 6 miserable months, and autopilot is OKAY, but the amount of attention it gets from media and the public is wildly disproportionate to the middling functionality it actually provides. Highway Assistant works better WITHOUT HANDS!! SuperCruise does as well. I haven't tried Nissan's ProPilot 2.0 or BlueCruise, but I've read poor reviews. Highway Assistant (and SuperCruise) feel like an equally enormous step forward in the personal transportation experience as BEV vehicles generally, yet few seem to care...
Many philosophical ramblings here...

First, think about a definition of "luxury." It is not just merely being plush or posh. Luxury is often thought of as a brand or product that offers a unique or exclusive experience at usually a higher price. Then flash back to a few years ago in the BEV marketplace. For a long time, Tesla offered a unique, very high performance, exclusive (by virtue of both cost and supply constraint) vehicle. That is the very epitome of luxury. They created a premium luxury brand and it stuck very well.

It is not as true today after many other competitive entrants offer similar BEV experiences and Tesla reset their prices. The Model Y is now the #1 selling car in the world, so it is far from exclusive. But, the luxury branding is strong and will probably continue to stick with them for a while, thanks to halo products like the Model X and Cybertruck.

As for Highway Assistant Pro, I think it is the best on the market right now. But it has only been special since the hands-free update in iDrive 8.5. Basic ADAS has been around for a very long time, everybody does it, and it is largely commodity. Tesla's basic Autopilot is pretty good, but nobody really cares. The marketing hype is all about full self driving that Tesla, GM, Mercedes, Hyundai Motor Group, etc. are marketing. BMW's current Highway Assistant Pro is the functional equivalent of Tesla's $6K Enhanced Auto Pilot. But BMW's performance and user experience is vastly superior. But nobody is doing that level of ADAS comparison. Consumer Reports did their review of all the ADAS offerings late last year and lumped BMW, Tesla, Toyota, and Ford as equals in "Capabilities and Performance." In a nut, they saw them all as mostly the same.
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      03-11-2024, 07:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exxxviii View Post
Many philosophical ramblings here...

First, think about a definition of "luxury." It is not just plus. Luxury is often something that offers a unique or elusive experience at usually a higher price. Then flash back to even just a few years a go. For a long time, Tesla offered a unique, very high performance, exclusive (by virtue of both cost and supply constraint) vehicle. That is the very epitome of luxury. They created a premium brand and it stuck very well.

It is not as true today after many other entrants offer similar BEV experiences and Tesla reset their prices. The Model Y is now the #1 selling car in the world, so it is far from exclusive. But, the luxury branding is strong and will probably continue to stick with them for a while, thanks to halo products like the Model X and Cybertruck.

As for Highway Assistant Pro, I think it is the best on the market right now. But it has only been special since the hands-free update in iDrive 8.5. Basic ADAS has been around for a very long time, everybody does it, and it is largely commodity. Tesla's basic Autopilot is pretty good, but nobody really cares. The marketing hype is all about full self driving that Tesla, GM, Mercedes, Hyundai Motor Group, etc. are marketing. BMW's current Highway Assistant Pro is the functional equivalent of Tesla's $6K Enhanced Auto Pilot. But BMW's performance and user experience is vastly superior. But nobody is doing that level of ADAS comparison. Consumer Reports did their review of all the ADAS offerings late last year and lumped BMW, Tesla, Toyota, and Ford as equals in "Capabilities and Performance." In a nut, they saw them all as mostly the same.
I would say the BMW pro driving assistant is definitely better and far beyond the functional equivalent of enhanced autopilot which I also have. Even enhanced autopilot can’t go hands free ever on any freeway in its current form. Enhanced autopilot still cannot do automated parking after the genius decision to eliminate ultrasonic parking sensors in favor of a camera based system that still is not ready for use.
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