Valve adjustment question from Noob

[strokeoluck]

I just purchased a 2007 Z4 MR with 22k miles from a non-BMW dealer. The car is in beautiful shape so I have to believe it wasn't beaten up at the track or anything previously. The car is still under BMW warranty through May, 2013 and under warranty from the non-BMW dealer for another 58 days or 2,300 miles. I'm hearing a "ticking" or "clicking" or "clacking" sound from the engine when driving. I would call it subtle, but definitely noticeable. I do NOT hear the sound when I'm just parked and revving the engine in neutral. But when driving down the road I (and guests) can easily hear it, particularly when the car is in third, fourth or fifth gear and somewhat cruising between 2k and 3k RPM. This is not a cold start sound, it happens at mile 1 or at mile 30 during a drive. I might not hear it in the lower gears because usually I'm hitting those pretty hard in order to get up to speed.

At the time of purchase the salesperson showed me the Z4 service history details on two pieces of paper that had been faxed to him by a local BMW dealer. Unfortunately I didn't take the paper with me (will call dealer Monday), but we both agreed that the valve adjustment was not noted anywhere in the service history. I told the salesperson about the need to do the valve adjustment roughly every 20k miles on these Z4 M's. He wasn't aware of that. Another salesperson that took the car in on trade (previous owner had to sell it due to child on the way) called the previous owner while I was there and asked him about the valve adjustment. That owner told the salesperson that his BMW dealer told him the valve adjustment was only necessary in certain warranty situations, not as a matter of routine maintenance. The previous owner confirmed he never had anything done to the valves.

I checked the Owners Manual and didn't see anything in Inspection I or Inspection II about the valve adjustment, as others here have indicated.

Some more details that may influence your replies:

1) When I left the dealer they were nice enough to fill it up with gas. Having been a former car lot grunt myself many moons ago (man, what a great job that was ), I'm guessing they didn't pay attention to the fact the car needs 93 octane gas and filled it up with 87 octane. Could that be part of the problem? After driving the car quite a bit in the last 12 hours I worked it down to 1/4 tank, and then filled up with 92 octane gas (highest I could find in the immediate area). But even after giving the car about 20 miles to work through some of the combined gas (if the original stuff was lower octane; unknown at this time), it was still making the same noise.

2) I just noticed there is a fairly non-descript, non-branded oil change sticker on the front windshield. It simply has a pre-printed CITY and STATE noted on the sticker (same city and state as the dealer I bought it at; where there is no BMW dealer), and the date and mileage of when to change the oil again - indicating it's just recently been changed. I'm thinking the non-BMW dealer changed the oil. Now I need to go back to them and see if they used the proper oil. Could that have an impact? I did check the oil level and it's fine.

3) If the local BMW dealer says the car only needs valve adjustment for a warranty issue, and there's nothing noted in the Owners Manual about a VA, does the '07 Z4 MR really need a valve adjustment? If so, how do I justify this to the local BMW dealer(s?)...that other people on an internet forum say it needs to be done?! Just trying to figure out how I plead my case. I'm assuming I should go to the BMW dealership for this type of service, and it should still be covered under warranty...correct? I don't believe I'd want the non-BMW dealer working on this type of thing.

Sorry for the long-winded question/issue, but looking for some guidance from those who have been through this before. Thanks in advance.

[aerobod]

The valve adjustment is covered under the 4 year maintenance plan at Inspection I, not the warranty. If you are still within 4 years of the in-service date and Inspection I is due (check the service indicator countdown when the ignition is switched on), BMW will cover it. If the car has an additional BMW extended maintenance plan it should be covered, too. It does need to be done at every Inspection.

It sounds like the oil change it has was not with the correct oil. If you can't confirm that Castrol TWS 10w60 was used (or at least an equivalent 10w60 synthetic oil), then it is importatnt that you change the oil and filter as soon as possible. I wouldn't risk driving the car hard or far without the correct oil in it.

[strokeoluck]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The valve adjustment is covered under the 4 year maintenance plan at Inspection I, not the warranty.

Thanks for the quick reply. Just curious, if it's covered, then why isn't it mentioned in the manual? I now plan on taking the car to the dealer first thing Monday morning.

[jmillet]

The various service requirements dictated by the Service Indicator System are listed on the Service Maintenance Checklist.
2007 Z4 Service Maintenance Checklist.pdf

Originally Posted by aerobod

The valve adjustment is covered under the 4 year maintenance plan at Inspection I, not the warranty. If you are still within 4 years of the in-service date and Inspection I is due (check the service indicator countdown when the ignition is switched on), BMW will cover it. If the car has an additional BMW extended maintenance plan it should be covered, too. It does need to be done at every Inspection.

It sounds like the oil change it has was not with the correct oil. If you can't confirm that Castrol TWS 10w60 was used (or at least an equivalent 10w60 synthetic oil), then it is importatnt that you change the oil and filter as soon as possible. I wouldn't risk driving the car hard or far without the correct oil in it.

[strokeoluck]

Originally Posted by jmillet

The various service requirements dictated by the Service Indicator System are listed on the Service Maintenance Checklist.
Attachment 748175

Thanks Jim. My owners manual doesn't indicate the same, that's why I'm confused. I just made an online appointment to take the car in next week. Will hopefully get to the bottom of this asap.

[Finnegan]

There's a supplemental manual for the M. The "regular" manual covers the 3.0 (different engine and drivetrain).

Don't expect the dealer to know what to do either. Most don't know the M version at all and just feed BS. Do your homework. Inspection I and surrounding issues have been covered extensively. The was a recent thread on this too--just a few days ago.

I would not drive the car with non descript oil. It's a special motor that needs special care. Plenty on oil here too.

[Rated M Roadster]

I'll second or third the oil part. When I bought mine, the dealer used the non-M oil, and after changing to the correct oil it was noticeably smoother and quieter.

[strokeoluck]

Alright guys, thanks. I'll study up on the M supplement manual and will be prepped when I visit the dealer this week. Hopefully no long term damage was done. A little spooky to think the dealers don't know the M's well.

[Finnegan]

Dealers and their SAs and techs just need adult supervision. Some are good, others not so good, pays to keep an eye on them (true of anyone who works on cars).

The unique issue with the M version of the Z4 is that many don't get past the Z4 part and spout requirements for the 3.0 and SI. Sometimes it helps to say "it's a Z4 but the M version, more or less the same as an E46 M3.". The E46 M3 is more well known and a higher production number car. I also find beer works well in getting extra care/attention. A 12 pack in the trunk with a nice note, to be shared by the SAs and techs--after service is done--goes a long way. Especially if you mention it upfront to the SA on arrival.

[Caddyshk]

Confirm the 1,200 mile M Inspection was completed too. BMW will have a record of it.

[strokeoluck]

Ok, in my hands I have a booklet/manual titled "Service and Warranty Information, 2007 Z4 M Roadster, Z4 M Coupe." Is it safe to assume this is the M specific supplemental manual you are referring to?

On page 5 it references the 1,200 mile service items - nothing about valves here. (According to the previous notes made in this manual this service was done at 2,800 miles.)

On page 6 & 7 it references the Inspection I items, and again, I don't see any mention of valve adjustment. Same with Inspection II items noted on page 8.

Clearly I see on jmillet's PDF doc that a valve check/adjustment is called out, but that leads me back to my question...why isn't the valve adjustment noted in either of my manuals?

And the follow up question...will the BMW dealer give me a hard time about this? I'm going to walk in with the PDF that jmillet provided, but if they reference my manuals, will I have to be prepared for a battle with these guys? I've never dealt with a BMW dealer before. The one I'm going to sells 300-400 cars/month and seem to be pretty professional, so I'm hopeful things will go fairly smooth.

[Caddyshk]

Inspection 1 on most cars will be between 25-30K miles assuming resets were done correctly.

[SD ///M4]

I've been wanting to jump in here because I have similar questions, but I just finished vacation and was traveling Saturday and catching up yesterday and today.

A little history on my 2006 Z4 M Roadster: I purchased it from a BMW dealer in July with 31,700 miles on it. Between the BMW Service History and information that I've gotten from the original owner (a former ZPost member), the car was manufactured on 4/18/06 and it's in-service date was 8/31/06. The original owner bought the car as a new car demo on 7/6/07 with 98 miles on it. The 1200 mile service was done on 7/27/07 at 1186 miles.

The second oil change was done 18 months later on 1/13/09 at 10,804 miles. A low mileage annual oil change was also done 14 months later on 3/19/10 at 17,769 miles. This is the last entry in the BMW Vehicle History. The car went out of warranty on either 8/31/10 or 7/7/11 (not sure which date applies for the 4 year warranty). The previous owner said that after the car was out of warranty he had the oil changed by a BMW tech off the books on weekends, so there are no additional official oil changes in the service history. He said the last oil change was done in November, 2011. It probably had around 30,000 miles on it then. I don't know if an oil change was done between 3/19/10 and November 2011. The original owner has confirmed that Inspection I was not done in November, which is apparently the last time he had any service done on the car. (The original owner appears to have been somewhat lax on getting even the free annual oil changes and skipped the first important maintenance because the car was out of warranty. He also apparently rode his motorcycle probably more than he drove the Z4 MR and he didn't autocross or track the car. He traded in the Z4 MR on a 135i in June after he got married and was given the choice between the Z4 MR or the bike.)

I have all of the original manuals from the car, including the Z4 Driver's Reference Guide, the Z4 Owner's Manual, the Z4 M Supplemental Manual, and the Service and Warranty Information booklet. Maintenance is mentioned in the Z4 Owner's Manual on page 47 and refers to the Service Interval Display which indicates whether Oil Service or Inspection is due next. It is also mentioned on page 91 and refers to the Service and Warranty Information booklet. It is also mentioned in the Z4 M Supplemental Manual and mentions the 1200 mile service.

The Service and Warranty Information booklet has a list of maintenance items to be done at Engine Oil Service, Inspection I, and Inspection II. A valve adjustment is not mentioned for either Inspection I or Inspection II.

However, everyone points to the PDF that jmillet posted as the reference for maintenance which includes a valve adjustment for Inspection I and Inspection II under Engine Compartment and is obviously an official BMW document for 2007 and 2008 M Roadsters and Coupes. So my questions are similar to strokeofluck's: Was this just missing in the 2006 Service booklet (and apparently the 2007 booklet)? Why doesn't this document mention 2006 M Roadsters and Coupes, as the S54 engines are identical? Sorry if the experienced Z4 M owners have already figured this out but I've researched this considerably and can't seem to find any answers. My BMW mechanic, also the President of our local BMW CCA chapter, says that the S54 engines need a valve adjustment every 30,000 miles.

I currently have 33,400 miles on the car and the next service is shown as Oil Service in 5250 miles.

So, my other questions:

• Should I have a valve adjustment done ASAP or is it possible that it just hasn't come up as a service item yet? I can do all other items scheduled for Inspection I and already have the engine air filter and cabin air filter.
• Should I change the oil now? I'm planning on changing the oil myself when it's due next and plan to change it at 5,000 or 7,500 mile intervals, or at least once a year. The oil looks clean and is still relatively light in color.

I'll be using the car as my regular transportation, but I'm retired so daily driver is meaningless, as well as monthly autocrosses.

Any further information and/or recommendations are appreciated!

[Pheonix]

If you are planning on keeping the car for a long time then i would recommend the Valve job as soon as you can. You could also tell if the valves are somewhat loose by how noisy the engine is. I did my 2007 at 28.5K miles (even the indicator has 4.5k more to go). I changed shims and the car seems much quieter (pull a little harder as well but that could be placebo).
As far as the oil change go, how many miles you have on it now? just to sleep better at night, I would change it if it is over 5k miles (since the last oil change). Then do an anual oil change or at 5k-7.5k interval.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by SD Z4MR

I currently have 33,400 miles on the car and the next service is shown as Oil Service in 5250 miles.

So, my other questions:

• Should I have a valve adjustment done ASAP or is it possible that it just hasn't come up as a service item yet? I can do all other items scheduled for Inspection I and already have the engine air filter and cabin air filter.
• Should I change the oil now? I'm planning on changing the oil myself when it's due next and plan to change it at 5,000 or 7,500 mile intervals, or at least once a year. The oil looks clean and is still relatively light in color.

I'll be using the car as my regular transportation, but I'm retired so daily driver is meaningless, as well as monthly autocrosses.

Any further information and/or recommendations are appreciated!

Get the valve adjustment done, it doesn't sound like this vehicle was babied from the history you've provided. Valve adjustment should have happened at approximately 25k. If you find a good indie, he'll use more accurate feeler gauges to perform the adjustment, the BMW tech gauges can still allow out of spec valves. Exhaust valves being very important on this engine, it's not worth the risk as the adjustment price won't vary too much from indie to indie. Oil changes should occur well before the recommended interval. Cracking open the valve cover will reveal the oil change history by the amber color alone, the darker, the longer the interval.

The photo attached was my own adjustment, 2 months after the dealer said they were adjusted (11 still out of spec, 1 exhaust too tight!). This is the ideal color of the internals. Oil changes were at every 4500.

[Finnegan]

SD Z4MR, I agree with Kurgan. Change the filters while you're doing it and the plugs as well. You might want to even consider new ignition coils, since those can die around 30K (or so it seems).

Since you're in San Diego, you might want to contact Kevin who does mobile valve adjustment work. It's his specialty, and he comes to you. He's Kaiv on the forum. Here's a thread from Rclem where the job was documented and discussed.

[bignosejim]

I would also get a Blackstone oil analysis when you change the oil to check the condition of the crankshaft bearings. My Z4M had a questionable early oil change history and I now probably have higher wear than most with 30,000 miles. Even this doesn't dampen my enthusiasm for owning the M Coupe though.

[strokeoluck]

Update: took her into the local indy shop. They had oodles of Porsches, Bimmers, Audi's, etc. sitting around so it appears they work on some higher end stuff. Very pleased with the shop and the long and helpful explanation I received from their high performance guy. They changed my oil for $110 - did not use BMW Castrol spec-ed stuff, but they said they've been using this synthetic oil for a long time in many of their high perf. and/or track cars.

More imporantly I asked him about that slight "clicking" or "clacking" sound I hear from the engine. He said he and his tech both feel it's "normal" for the M. He said I don't need to worry about a valve adjustment until the Inspection I service indicator comes on. They don't see any signs that the car should have it done before that indicator comes on. He told me these M's have a reputation for being a bit raspy and the sound I'm hearing is normal. He said overall the car is in good shape, save for a tiny bit of seepage around the rear differential (which I'll get checked out before the CPO warranty runs out).

I want to trust...but verify.

It still strikes me as odd that the car sounds like I think it should while sitting in my garage in neutral. When I punch the gas in the garage, it sounds like a well-tuned, strong German engine - no clicking or clacking. But as soon as I put it in gear and hit 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear and in the 2k - 3k RPM range, I hear the clicking/clacking. The sound is subtle, but it's there. The good news (I guess) is that this shop feels nothing is wrong so I can drive it with some level of comfort that I'm not doing any damage. But it's still a bit of a head scratcher and I'd like some validation that I'm not crazy for thinking about it this way. I've never owned a BMW before, let alone a high performance car (do you guys view these M's as high performance cars?!), so I can't say with any certainty if the shop guy is right or not...though I certainly WANT to believe him.

Are there any guys from the Twin Cities area on this board that plan on attending the Chanhassen Oct. 6th Cars and Coffee meeting at the AutoPlex? Maybe I can take someone for a ride and see if they agree with me, or tell me to just relax. Thanks!

[strokeoluck]

UPDATE. Took it into the big BMW shop today and asked them to check out the "clattering" sound, the rear diff and check on some other stuff before the CPO warranty runs out. They called me up today while I was in a golf outing so I didn't have a chance to get all the details, but here are the basics...

- Clattering sound. He told me his shop tech said this is normal for the M cars (same thing the indie guy said), and not to worry about it.

- They fixed the rear diff seal. Not sure how as I didn't have time to get the full explanation, will do so upon pick up.

- He said everything else checked out just fine and said he thinks I purchased an M car that's in great shape.

I'm only going to drive it another month or so before she gets put to bed in my garage for five months. Maybe I'll get the valve adjustment done next summer.

[chickdr]

Originally Posted by strokeoluck

UPDATE. Took it into the big BMW shop today and asked them to check out the "clattering" sound, the rear diff and check on some other stuff before the CPO warranty runs out. They called me up today while I was in a golf outing so I didn't have a chance to get all the details, but here are the basics...

- Clattering sound. He told me his shop tech said this is normal for the M cars (same thing the indie guy said), and not to worry about it.

- They fixed the rear diff seal. Not sure how as I didn't have time to get the full explanation, will do so upon pick up.

- He said everything else checked out just fine and said he thinks I purchased an M car that's in great shape.

I'm only going to drive it another month or so before she gets put to bed in my garage for five months. Maybe I'll get the valve adjustment done next summer.

This sounds spot on. You should be getting the Service I indicator soon if you are around 23K. The valves would be done then. The clacking is definitely normal. If you really want to hear a difference try this- turn the car off with the clutch depressed then try it again with it released in neutral. What a racket it makes if not depressed! The 2-3K noise is also normal. It is the "VANOS rattle". The S54 is not a very smooth quiet engine. Also- yes- I would say the M is a high performance car. Any I-6 with a 8k redline and over 100hp/l would be considered high performance in my book...

[strokeoluck]

Originally Posted by chickdr

This sounds spot on. You should be getting the Service I indicator soon if you are around 23K. The valves would be done then. The clacking is definitely normal.

That makes me feel better too! I was really starting to worry whether I had blown $30k by buying this car without having it inspected first.

Originally Posted by chickdr

If you really want to hear a difference try this- turn the car off with the clutch depressed then try it again with it released in neutral. What a racket it makes if not depressed!

Well!...you just answered another question that's been banging around in my head. I describe it as a death rattle - when I turn the car off and it's in neutral w/out the clutch depressed. Guess I'll stop doing that!

Originally Posted by chickdr

The S54 is not a very smooth quiet engine.

Maybe once I put a different exhaust on the car it will drown out some of the clattering.

Originally Posted by chickdr

Also- yes- I would say the M is a high performance car. Any I-6 with a 8k redline and over 100hp/l would be considered high performance in my book...

Good, because I love the feeling I get a) knowing I have a high performance car; and b) driving said high performance car!

[chickdr]

LOL. As an aside from what I understand there is no problem turning the car off with the clutch released in neutral(ie the sound is normal for the type of clutch we have) but I don't like hearing it either. Enjoy your high performance car!!!